Battlefield 3 LOSC Server (US)

[Gunthar~SPARTA~]

"Crouch Only" worked very well in COD MW, the maps suited it and it brought a calmer & more structured gameplay.

The same can be done here, I'm sure, all we need to do is define the right elements for BF3, in particular the larger maps: Maybe a run/walk/run approach or simply implement crouch movement as soon as you come under fire. As for frequency, I think the same logic as the MW games, one night a week.

 

From my understanding behind the crouch only COD servers was that it was due to the lightweight kits along with the various other perks when combined would allow someone to run and insane speeds and kill people very quickly. Getting 30 kills with a knife is not a great idea when building a FPS. Here in BF3 the speed of people moving is very much spot on to real life so why should we restrict the ability of people to move from point to point quickly and force them into moving slowly across open ground which really kind of takes away from the tactical gameplay.

 

To me playing tactically means you play as if you would in a real world mission and I have yet to see CNN footage of insurgents fighting American soldiers and everyone was crouched down moving across an open area or even inside of buildings. Crouch only servers were amazing for COD and really helped the gameplay on that type of game. Here on BF3 I truely do not feel that it is really warrented to make this restriction as you gain very little in the way of tactical gameplay yet you limit people quite a bit. We as a community know what is and isn't tactical because most of us have played Arma and been punished by the AI for not doing so. I think that we can police ourselves rather than have people forced to do something they really don't want.

 

I personnally will not be playing crouch only and if it does become a requirement on the Sparta servers then in the intrests of remaining on good terms with each of you I will refrain from playing on those servers. However the infantry only style or limited vehicles is a fantastic idea I think that would truely draw a following among the BF3 community and help us find our place in this crazy game.

 

I hate to beat the dead horse here but Tactical gameplay is a mindset not a set of rules, you restrict people and you restrict their fun you provide an enviroment tailored to your play requirements with codes of conduct then everything will fall into place.

[MH6~SPARTA~]

Personally I doubt crouch-only would help much--in fact it'd probably just get you killed, because you wouldn't be able to sprint from cover to cover. Slowly walking from cover to cover will just get you shot before you've gone two feet.

 

3D spotting, however, is a no-no. It can be abused waaaay too much.

[Batwing~SPARTA~]

Personally I doubt crouch-only would help much--in fact it'd probably just get you killed, because you wouldn't be able to sprint from cover to cover. Slowly walking from cover to cover will just get you shot before you've gone two feet.

 

3D spotting, however, is a no-no. It can be abused waaaay too much.

 

Totally agree, and I second many of the Gunthar's points.

 

The more I play this game and the more I see a Shooter made with some grain of salt. It is still a fast pace game, but it reaches a lot of realistic balance, especially when it comes to movements.

 

I do not believe the experience can be compared to any CoD.

[Phisher~SPARTA~]

I think there are three server side options that can have a major impact on encouraging teamplay. In addition to the standard hardcore settings I think this would help:

 

Increase spawn times and only spawn on squad leader or no spawning on teammates:

Now your deaths really matter because it is going to take 20 seconds to respawn, you won't be able to just teleport right back to the front lines, and reviving teammates is vital. I know 20 seconds seems like an eternity but if you think about ARMA or even CS where when you die = your out for many minutes, this game makes it easy.

 

Vehicle limitations:

No more just waiting for the tank to blow up and instantly hopping in the fresh new one. Maybe you get 2 per game and thats it. Same rule for jets. This will encourage conservative gameplay but reward those who take a risk and succeed.

 

No spotting:

Spotting be it 3d or on minimap just defeats the purpose of those players who like to take cover, conceal, or be stealthy. Right now when you shoot, even one bullet, your exact location is pinpointed on the minimap. It's as if were all running around with sonar seeking microphones. It works for Ghost Recon but not this IMO. Not to mention, get in a game with mortars. When you shoot, a player with a mortar will see your blip on the map and can drop and shell exactly where you stand in 3 seconds. In game with 3 of them it is impossible to capture locations or destroy mcoms. I'm sure they will nerf this eventually but right now it is ridiculous.

[Gunthar~SPARTA~]

I think there are three server side options that can have a major impact on encouraging team play. In addition to the standard hardcore settings I think this would help:

 

Increase spawn times and only spawn on squad leader or no spawning on teammates:

Now your deaths really matter because it is going to take 20 seconds to respawn, you won't be able to just teleport right back to the front lines and reviving teammates is vital. I know 20 seconds seems like an eternity but if you think about ARMA or even CS where when you die = youre out for many minutes, this game makes it easy.

 

Vehicle limitations:

No more just waiting for the tank to blow up and instantly hopping in the fresh new one. Maybe you get 2 per game and thats it. Same rule for jets. This will encourage conservative game play but reward those who take a risk and succeed.

 

No spotting:

Spotting be it 3d or on minimap just defeats the purpose of those players who like to take cover, conceal, or be stealthy. Right now when you shoot, even one bullet, your exact location is pinpointed on the minimap. It's as if were all running around with sonar seeking microphones. It works for Ghost Recon but not this IMO. Not to mention, get in a game with mortars. When you shoot, a player with a mortar will see your blip on the map and can drop and shell exactly where you stand in 3 seconds. In game with 3 of them it is impossible to capture locations or destroy mcoms. I'm sure they will nerf this eventually but right now it is ridiculous.

 

Ok on this I think we can all agree. I would make one tweak and make that respawn only on conquest maps due to the team balancing issues we have been seeing. If you have long respawns on the defenders and they are outnumbered by say one or two people it can mean a loss when the extra 5-8 sec would have allowed them to put up a great defense. I think 12-15 sec would be about perfect.

 

As for the hardcore settings, I have not seen that the standard game really takes that many rounds to kill people since they are all wearing body armor. Harcore seems to increase the killing power of sniper's more than anything which will encourge a more campy style game instead of a CQB pwnfest.

Edited October 27, 2011 by Gunthar~SPARTA~

[Watchman~SPARTA~]

Personally I doubt crouch-only would help much--in fact it'd probably just get you killed, because you wouldn't be able to sprint from cover to cover. Slowly walking from cover to cover will just get you shot before you've gone two feet.

 

3D spotting, however, is a no-no. It can be abused waaaay too much.

 

On the crouch only nights. it was acceptable to run between cover, the logic was to try and simulate real life conditions and not run around the map bunny-hopping like a loon. It was never about insta-bans for standing up, jumping etc, so it would still work here, modified for the map size. I'm not advocating it's the right way to go but elements will work if applied correctly, just like everything else that is being suggested.

 

+1 on the 3D spotting being turned off.

[Yankee~SPARTA~]

If we make all these rules go into effect, we're going to need to make sure we have more than 1 admin. I guarantee not everyone reads these boards and having to explain our rules over and over again will get old quickly.

 

I'd suggest picking the top three rage inducing issues and make three corresponding rules and stick to them. The majority of these maps are not meant to be played crouch only. Even the small ones will last ages with crouch only and people will die frequently due to campers.

 

Most of all, let's not beat this topic to death. There is no magic catch all way and appealing to all is not possible. We did this with ba company and by the time we thought we had rules set people had dropped off and the server lie empty.

 

No amount of rules can "make" you like a game.

[Halli~SPARTA~]

We will let the new wear off before getting tough but It would be nice to work as Squads when possible.

 

 

 

 

P.s. Please make welcome my older Brother "BMUSHAL" (Billy)

at this current time he plays tri-monitor of which he gets no Green above freindlys so If he TK's please understand....that and he is OLD!!! haha

[KalXen~SPARTA~]

Toss the crouch-only conversation for BF3, it won't work here. Its meant to slow people down in a tight-fit run and gun game with a map the size of a thimble. As others have said, there is too much air space between cover and targets that if you are crouching or walking, you will die repeatedly before you ever have a chance to think. And my eyeballs will bleed waiting for people to crawl 1k from the spawn to a target. But think about the intent of crouch - slow down, and plan out your moves.

 

Here's my take on tactical PLAY.

 

1) Play the game like you only had 1 life. By this I mean, nobody with any lasting chance would strap C4 to a vehicle, drive like a bat out of hell off a cliff, and explode themselves against a building wall for the chance for some collateral damage. Use common sense, if people are abusing a kit or a situation, then we as a group should stop the game and address it as it happens. Team Damage should be on, so be careful of just noob tubing the area or dropping grenades out your back pocket.

 

2) Keep comms clean, separate in own channels, and focused on tactical discussions, steps, and advancement. No 'I pwned your face' BS on comms, while others are trying to focus. Be respectful, and separate yourself into US vs RU channels at the start of play so that there is a real opportunity to share situational awareness w/o need for minimap, etc.

 

3) Work as a team. Join your squad, enforce the spawn on team lead only option, and make a plan. Set up defensive strategies and talk about what you should do. Before the map kicks in, start to plan out where to go, who will do what, etc. Work as a team to always ensure at least 1 person (squad lead) is in cover to allow for respawns. Make sure someone is bringing supplies, or doing heals. Not everyone should be sniper, etc. As a team, you will do better with a plan and a backup plan.

 

4) Remove elements of the game that outbalance the need for actually listening to your headphones and keeping your eyes peeled on the screen. Remove 3D spotting, remove the minimap spotting, force spawning on squad leaders only, focus the maps on infantry play on dedicated nights by removing vehicles or really limiting their spawn rate. The only caveat to any of this is that I honestly want to play with some vehicles at some point, and don't want to have to leave our servers to do it.

[NoScream~SPARTA~]

Well I'd have to agree with KAL for the most part.

 

Currently, server scrip will support part of but not all of the possibilities. The only point I do disagree on is the SL Squad leader spawning only option, I tried it, I tried it with maj3stic & found one problem, the SL dies, your screwed as you will have to hike the full distance from spawn to the action, slowing the game down with long bouts of running/walking. In our trials, Maj3stic & I found it killed pace & fun, it killed the point of being a squad (all members), remember it's a game & it's suppose to be enjoyable too.

 

So to cap it off, Vehicles can all be removed except for the Humvee styled vehicle which defies the value in script for NO VEHICLES. The Humvee styled vehicle has a .50 cal mounted machine gun, this would be the only distraction to Infantry warfare.

 

Health regen can be turned OFF, start health can be set to 50-60% max which means about 1-4 rounds (one burst) will kill depending on accuracy & distance. Health only available via medic/assault class.

 

All spotting OFF, respawn times can be set to 0-100% of normal (0-10 sec). Bullet damage full, name tags OFF, meaning all friendlies marked with blue triangle only, enemies never marked (with FF on the problem is many have a hard time discerning between friend or foe & it would get messy).

 

Friendly Fire ON, meaning, think before you throw a grenade or explosive type ordinance. HUD OFF, meaning bullet count, fire rate, health level all missing (bottom right box) KillCam OFF & finally Mini map ON for orientation.

 

ALL THIS IS POSSIBLE.

 

Want to give it a shot?

 

 

Tactical for me is very simple, it means thinking before acting, With poor lighting in the game the only concession I think is reasonable is the marking of friendlies, as I've seen it before, when two teams wear similar uniforms in close combat it's very hard especially in a game where the trigger will be pulled on every movement..

 

If you want to try this setup the UK server is already set for you to see.....

24/7 Legion of Sparta (UK) HARDCORE

 

It's set to one player launch, so only a few need go in and see what

it feels like on this settings......

 

have fun...

[Batwing~SPARTA~]

Well I'd have to agree with KAL for the most part.

 

Currently, server scrip will support part of but not all of the possibilities. The only point I do disagree on is the SL Squad leader spawning only option, I tried it, I tried it with maj3stic & found one problem, the SL dies, your screwed as you will have to hike the full distance from spawn to the action, slowing the game down with long bouts of running/walking. In our trials, Maj3stic & I found it killed pace & fun, it killed the point of being a squad (all members), remember it's a game & it's suppose to be enjoyable too.

 

So to cap it off, Vehicles can all be removed except for the Humvee styled vehicle which defies the value in script for NO VEHICLES. The Humvee styled vehicle has a .50 cal mounted machine gun, this would be the only distraction to Infantry warfare.

 

Health regen can be turned OFF, start health can be set to 50-60% max which means about 1-4 rounds (one burst) will kill depending on accuracy & distance. Health only available via medic/assault class.

 

All spotting OFF, respawn times can be set to 0-100% of normal (0-10 sec). Bullet damage full, name tags OFF, meaning all friendlies marked with blue triangle only, enemies never marked (with FF on the problem is many have a hard time discerning between friend or foe & it would get messy).

 

Friendly Fire ON, meaning, think before you throw a grenade or explosive type ordinance. HUD OFF, meaning bullet count, fire rate, health level all missing (bottom right box) KillCam OFF & finally Mini map ON for orientation.

 

ALL THIS IS POSSIBLE.

 

Want to give it a shot?

 

 

Tactical for me is very simple, it means thinking before acting, With poor lighting in the game the only concession I think is reasonable is the marking of friendlies, as I've seen it before, when two teams wear similar uniforms in close combat it's very hard especially in a game where the trigger will be pulled on every movement..

 

If you want to try this setup the UK server is already set for you to see.....

24/7 Legion of Sparta (UK) HARDCORE

 

It's set to one player launch, so only a few need go in and see what

it feels like on this settings......

 

have fun...

 

 

Totally with you on this. I think this setting is an adequate balancing to keep what BF3 is, can be and keep in mind what is not and will not be.

 

About the vehicles, thatt s to me the tough call. There are maps where vehicles are needed and others just less. I guess is not possible to script the server based on the running map, therefore if you really limit the vehicles thinking of smaller maps, when it loads a large one you are mostly screwd.

Other solution would be a limited map rotation, only very large maps, so that vehicle can be used and are useful, but that could return to be repetitive and boring.

 

I really think you also have to keep in mind what kind of "public Relations" we want to have thru a SPARTA server.

 

If is Sparta interest to have unknown players, we can offer an HC experience but we need to be "flexible". Not everyone is always agree to play a game with several restriction, meaning a Public HC server should not think ONLY what you Like, but what average guests would expect to enjoy.

 

Otherwise, our Sparta Custom Settings should be enforced and Server PASSWORDED, because as JHunter said several times, is not really the game mechanics making the difference, it is how you play it.

 

Spartans may have a vision on how to play a game, but you cannot expect all of casual guests will abide and follow those rules. Furthermore a very small part of casual guests will ever visit our Site to even read the rules, therefore all of this discussion is a total waste of time, resulting in a mess on server anyway.

 

Ask yourself why SPARTA UK Server is mostly empty and why SPARTA US has been empty for the most of the day till when afew Spartans decided to go on and play on it. Most Importantly ask yourself WHY while we have a few Sparta members online at the same time, they are playing scattered on several different servers when the Sparta one is empty

 

We can talk whatever you want, but the question is, why you go playing to another server? what are you enjoying? what are you looking for? It is not a matter of "full server, I have to choose another one" because ours was empty, so ppl instead to stick together, just is looking for other stuff.

 

On top of that I wander if the cost of 2 possible Sparta Servers is justified. Someone of our community is paying for them and I find almost disrespectful of this just going somewhere else.

Don t give me the crap such as "Oh, but our server is empty.." because you know better than me, is empty till is empty, you start populating it, you get in in 5 or 6 and in 30 seconds i promise you ll have a full 32 ppl running. We are Gamers, we know better.

[MedicSN6]

Rule rules rules. I am reading a lot of ideas here, some good, others, not so much.

 

You guys want a fair and balanced server to play in. I agree. It is easy to do. Setup a Hardcore server and play as a team.

 

This notion of wanting to change the dynamics of the game by removing assets, weapons, upgrades, forcing people to crouch across some of the largest maps in the FPS setting (barring ArmA), is ridiculous. DICE has spent years balancing the game. They are the subject matter experts. The notion that we should be able to play the game with a few lives as possible does not apply to Battlefield or any other ticket based game. The objective is to kill the other players as much as possible. If we try to turn BF3 in to Arma by applying the same kind of limits, we might as well go play Arma. We'd be ruining BF3 and everything is accomplishes in its genre.

 

If I kill you with a rifle with a IR scope, sure you can whine about it and bitch, Hell, I'd do the same, but that's where it stops. No amount of whining or bitching should mean that we remove content from the game. Set up a common sense Hardcore environment, moderate the server for cheaters and glitchers, and play the game the way it's meant to be played.... run n' gun n' stab you in the face.

 

If you want low and slow and one life per match style game play, fire up ARMA; it does it extremely well.

[KalXen~SPARTA~]

Mario - regarding empty servers:

 

1) We have two servers because two people got personal deals to get them set up. The NA server will likely only last for 1 month, and we will likely continue with the 64 player UK server. This is a topic for the next Sparta admin meeting on Sunday.

 

2) Most of us all work during the week, and are not level 30 by now. BF3 was built for best gameplay with at least 8+ people on a side. So if only 2 or 3 people are on, chances are they didn't get on at the same time and are looking for a casual game. However, when work is over, every day this week so far we have had LOSC members on the NA or UK servers playing together. In fact, we've had @ 20 players on at some points, and that's been limited to mainly US players until our buds from across the pond can activate.

 

If your intent about the empty server is that we are trying to set up some rules that change the way the game is played, and may be counterproductive: personally I would generally agree. I do not want rigid rules that may me rather play elsewhere, and I personally would like some chance for mayhem and vehicles. I have days where I would be 100% fine with a full on Hardcore no rules server. But after a few days of people crashing jets into buildings or jeep kamikaze acts and TK's, I'd rather not. It needs balance and moderation at the moment.

 

Maybe we pick a night to be our more infantry based, and other nights to do vehicle map rotations.

Maybe the server config allows to turn vehicles and hardcore at the map level within the rotation.

Either way, we start with something.. try it out.. and adjust.

[Pringle~SPARTA~]

On the vehicle debate:

 

I generally don't care for them personally. In a game like BF3, they are essentially mobile coffins. But, they are a part of the game and indeed of war itself. I've simply been of the opinion that armor in the BF series are insanely overpowered. If we can dial up the respawn rate of and/or nerf the armor... mission accomplished in my opinion.

[Batwing~SPARTA~]

If your intent about the empty server is that we are trying to set up some rules that change the way the game is played, and may be counterproductive: personally I would generally agree. I do not want rigid rules that may me rather play elsewhere, and I personally would like some chance for mayhem and vehicles.

 

I think besides other comments, this is mostly what I meant to say. Some rules is OK, too much can be counter productive

 

My enthusiasm is due to the high respect for the initiative to create 2 Sparta servers and I want to see them used and enjoyed.

[MH6~SPARTA~]

Just so you guys know, I could theoretically set up a system to enable/disable vehicles depending on if the map is Conquest or Rush, or if the number of players is below a certain threshold (i.e. less than 8 players = no vehicles). So that's one option.

 

I'd like to bring more pubbers to the US server. They may not follow our rules, but that's OK because it just means they will get dominated by the rest of us who are playing as a team.

[Batwing~SPARTA~]

They may not follow our rules, but that's OK because it just means they will get dominated by the rest of us who are playing as a team.

 

 

That is true only if we get Admin powers to move ppl from one team to another and we can possibly stack Spartans together. Otherwise playing separate will never establish a Teamplay

 

could theoretically set up a system to enable/disable vehicles depending on if the map is Conquest or Rush, or if the number of players is below a certain threshold (i.e. less than 8 players = no vehicles). So that's one option.

 

And this would be an amazing solution to give the final answer to the vehicle debate!

Edited October 28, 2011 by Batwing~SPARTA~

[Krambo]

great games tonight thanks all, nice to hear you all again.

 

Slain...

[Halli~SPARTA~]

It would be better if we do not team stack.

 

The tactical style server should be for a weekend day.

 

 

A whole lot of folks play with Sparta in ArmA2 because we have rules........hum it stayed full when new.

 

 

 

 

 

[KalXen~SPARTA~]

BF3 team joining is odd. I think the autobalance is overridden by people who try to join in on their buddy. BF3 will do its best to add you to the same team as your friend, even if it means it will throw the balance off. We were seeing this all day today, and the team sizes constantly had to be tweaked.

 

Additionally, some were concerned about their PC loading too slowly, and maybe adding some extra time to the start of the game to give those an opportunity to defend. This seemed to be few individuals with this concern, so will have to see if this is common enough to raise the starting timer. Too long, and people may get annoyed waiting for the game to start.

[Watchman~SPARTA~]

BF3 team joining is odd. I think the autobalance is overridden by people who try to join in on their buddy. BF3 will do its best to add you to the same team as your friend, even if it means it will throw the balance off. We were seeing this all day today, and the team sizes constantly had to be tweaked.

 

Additionally, some were concerned about their PC loading too slowly, and maybe adding some extra time to the start of the game to give those an opportunity to defend. This seemed to be few individuals with this concern, so will have to see if this is common enough to raise the starting timer. Too long, and people may get annoyed waiting for the game to start.

 

I can vouch for both of those. Due to a TS issue I have, a few times I overrode the auto balancing to allow me to stick with the TS channel team I was in.

 

My long delay getting into games might be a driver issue but on one round of Metro last night by the time I got in the team had taken out the first 2 M-coms and were in the tunnel.

I re-installed my ATI drivers, as suggested by T1, so I'll see if that helps today.

[Batwing~SPARTA~]

Something weird with Squad happens indeed.

 

Yesterday we were on a random Pub server and we didn t have a clear chance to join the Squad with our friends. We were on the same team, just unable to join their Squad, which was not locked. I was not able to find a botton "JOin Squad", I only had an option "Find Squad" which was randomly adding me to any other Squad.

 

Then in the same server at certain point I noticed the Gunthar Squad (the one I was unable to join, not even when was 2 or 3 elements) was "overfull" as 5 or 6 out of 4 !!

 

I am not good with the server settings, but who knows better, is there any local setting affecting how squad joining works ?

[AlarmedBread]

The squads are iffy sometimes, but usually this works.

 

First leave squad

Tell your buddy to do the same

Pick a squad to join, if it is empty BOTH need to try to join at the same time.

Highlight desired squad

Button appears in blue glow worm orgy text in lower left, below the squad lock options. This button only appears if you are able to join the squad.

There is no indication for you if the squad is locked or not, so have the squad leader check if the button does not show up.

Instruct opposing team to prepare their anus.

[AlarmedBread]

Great games tonight guys, we had 6v6 rush and it was nice having some really tight team work. Both teams were doing really well and it always came down to the wire.

[Halli~SPARTA~]

Yeah it was a better style of game play.