"Tactical" Coms on Non-Tac days

[AJsarge]

As the topic title says...Do we really need to use "Tactical" coms during non-tac days? I know it's important to be clear and concise when trying to tell someone something, but some of us are trying to relax by playing Arma 2. When I get someone yelling at me for keeping a holding pattern around the main base (expecting the AO to flip at any moment, and knowing that I'd be yelled at for keeping my rotors spooled up on the ground) I have a hard time relaxing. Hell, moments before I was trying to warn of an enemy SU-25 inbound from the south to the main AO, only to get "CLEAR COMMS!!!" yelled in my ear and to have the whole thing repeated by someone else just seconds later as the yeller doesn't say a word.

 

Give it a rest, just keep it short and simple. "HQ to AJ, are you headed to EVAC?" "Yeah." "Thanks AJ" is much preferred over "AJsarge this is Headquarters, spool down your engines, I can't hear myself. I don't care that you're leaving for the AO in 5 seconds." *I start lifting off with passengers* "I'm going to Main AO with two passengers to..." "AJsarge, where are you taking that helicopter? I need you to go to the EVAC marked..." etc. etc.

 

Please, some of us are trying to have fun, and it's hard with people yelling in our ears who think that their snippet can't wait 5 seconds while we finish our snippet. I'd rather not need to have to find a new server to play on. You're a great bunch who run a good ship, and I don't want to spoil that.

[Halli~SPARTA~]

 

It's Simple You Fly You will be controlled by those that are leading the AO or at the least by Mods/Admins Including Luggage.

I have not changed a damn thing in the way I Admin since you found this server and You enjoyed it then what has changed now?

 

No If you fly you will follow commands orders Why because if caous rules then we have nothing.

[Hunter~SPARTA~]

I second AJ's sentiments. I often find myself detaching myself from the main assault group to either run side missions or move to a different Sparta server merely because someone in TS is simply overbearing.

 

Granted, there are times when the comms break down into complete chaos and need a firm hand to reset order. Same can be said for in-game behavior. But like AJ said, a politely asked question is far more appreciated than someone yelling in my ear, "where the #$$*% are you going with that $*% chopper?!".

 

I know Sparta strives for a certain amount of cooperation and coordination even on "non-tac" days, but it's still a game. As we say in the Army, "Don't make an MOS out of it."

 

 

- JHunter

 

 

 

P.S. (edit) - These instances apply to most game aspects, not necessarily just piloting.

Edited December 20, 2009 by JHunter

[Halli~SPARTA~]

Once again If you fly and I admin it will be at Squad/company leaders call.

 

This is how we have always ran this server.

 

If no one is at the 4 way stop sign do you stop or drive thru it?

[Halli~SPARTA~]

Problem is I have been AFK too much as I have Neck Back problems and can't sit here all day ...Today I sat here playing all day.

[PANiC]

i find if noone is taking charge, then the TS channel is just 20 ppl talking shit and talking over each other, so you cant hear each other or yourself think.

 

if it gets too much then i just drop out of channel.

[Hunter~SPARTA~]

Halli, I can't speak for AJ, but at least from my stand point I'm not saying remove leadership. Far from it.

 

I'm merely saying that there are some people that get carried away when put "in charge". There are also times when someone tries to run a mission like it is "Tactical Friday". But obviously that won't work when not everyone is on TS and even the people that are, are not on the "same page". So it ends up being a bitching and ranting session in TS. And thats not fun for anyone.

 

 

- JHunter

[Halli~SPARTA~]

I understand this but also understand that if the server fills and we all talk over each other someone must take control or it becomes havock.

 

You will need to understand that when I admin IF there is no need for the Chopper then it better not be in my ear cause your ass can't hear the blades beating when your in it.

 

It's simple we are a Server of Ground Pounders.

 

But I don't think that's the problem I think it's Being Micro managed and this may be at times but dealing with a full server there are times when ya have to just to keep a grip on the Level of gameplay that YOU came to enjoy.

 

You never see me bitch at the Side mission guys unless they move Air assetts without all knowing.

[Hunter~SPARTA~]

I understand this but also understand that if the server fills and we all talk over each other someone must take control or it becomes havock.

 

I completely agree. Thats why I'd never suggest removing Command and Control elements. Without leadership, everyone would fall into unimaginable chaos.

 

 

But I don't think that's the problem I think it's Being Micro managed and this may be at times but dealing with a full server there are times when ya have to just to keep a grip on the Level of gameplay that YOU came to enjoy.

 

You never see me bitch at the Side mission guys unless they move Air assetts without all knowing.

 

Micromanagement can be a problem at times, but there are also times when its absolutely needed. Thats not really the "issue" I'm talking about.

 

I've never had an issue with you personally, anyway, Halli. You've gotten on my ass a few times but its just been a misunderstanding. You misunderstanding what I was saying or vice versa. But we communicate, make our intentions clear, and all is good.

 

What I have an issue with is how some people talk to other people. It's a game, there is no real life or death at stake, its simply not THAT serious. I don't want to hear someone cursing at someone else (or myself) because they missed something.

 

I have no issue with the mission commander going, "Chopper 1 pilot identify yourself and state your destination". But I do have an issue when the commander yells in the mic, "Who the #$$& is in Chopper 1 and where the $*%& are you taking it?!?!".

 

Also, like AJ first started saying, there could be someone trying to put out pertinent and mission important information, but someone else feels like their message is more important so they want to yell over the first person. Again, its just a game. It will be ok if you have to wait another 5 seconds to send your message.

 

 

- JHunter

[Halli~SPARTA~]

I completely agree. Thats why I'd never suggest removing Command and Control elements. Without leadership, everyone would fall into unimaginable chaos.

 

 

 

 

But I do have an issue when the commander yells in the mic, "Who the #$$& is in Chopper 1 and where the $*%& are you taking it?!?!".

 

 

 

- JHunter

 

Yes But The Brits Don't cuss So it must be me and I can tell you with out a doubt If you are taking a chopper I will say "Who the #$$& is in Chopper 1 and where the $*%& are you taking it?!?!". Because That is my caracture and I will not change it for you or anyone else unless Christ has a talk with me and say's I need to start showing more love to others......Good lord I'm An old Redneck just call me out on problems.

[Hunter~SPARTA~]

Hahaha, well you've never talked to me that way, Halli. So I'm not talking about you. I'm not one to hold grudges or hard feelings, so I honestly don't even remember the names of the people I've heard doing it.

 

Although I think I may have drifted a little off of AJ's original point here. The way I understand it, is that Tac Fridays were created to appease the more "hardcore" and "strict" gamers. The rest of the week, most people just wanna relax, go with the flow, and have some fun. Again thats not saying theres not a place for leadership to keep everything in check. Just ya know, keep a little slack in the reigns.

 

 

- JHunter

[Rooster]

Some people follow orders better than others.

 

 

[PANiC]

i think the server has evolved into what it is because it needed to, but there hasn't beeen any drastic changes so it looks like a couple of guys had a bad night on the server and need to vent.

 

i can understand a pilot for getting wound up for doing his job and it sucks to get shouted at for doing something you thought was good (been there) but re the OP for the infantry there is 2 things i don't need to hear, 1 helo above my head and 2 intel about a SU flying over, but where to draw the line??

[Skaz~SPARTA~]

oh lord... just ignore the swearing words, Halli is the sweetest person! HAHAHAHAHAH

Edited December 21, 2009 by Skazbr~SPARTA~

[KalXen~SPARTA~]

Remember guys that we have had to put in controls to limit who can fly for a reason - everyone wants to fly every helo thats available if they can, and many times there is barely a need for more than one helo to be active at a time.

 

Simple rules re: flying on Sparta Public Dom server:

1) You must be on TS to fly, even if you are on the approved list. Failure to do so see #5.

2) If a Spartan/Admin is on the server and they are trying to bring order to the situation, do your best to comply. Each has their own style and if there is a major issue we will discuss internally.

3) If you are on the approved list, it doesn't mean that you need to be flying every moment you are on the server.

4) Once an MHQ is in place, encourage people to use it. We don't really need to transport people via chopper at that point to an already established AO.

5) Lastly, misuse of the choppers will have you removed from the approved list just as easily as adding you - sometimes mid-flight.

 

Keep in mind that many of us (myself included) really enjoy flying. But we have to balance our personal interests with the teamwork commitment that we are trying to cultivate on this server.

[MedicSN6]

I have to agree with Halli on this one. This is a combat simulator and while we dont take every single aspect (not even most aspects) to the serious level like some servers do, we do require players to toe the line. That means everyone on TS and those not on TS. The TS guys take the brunt of the chatter but you guys are also the first ones we listen to when there is a problem such as hacking, tk'ers, lag, bugs, glitches, etc. You guy's (those on TS) problems normally take priority over non-TS players when they arise.

 

If you guys want a solid server to play on, we need your help in policing the server. It isnt a matter of he said/she said, but a matter of coordinating players to get shit done. If a helo carrying 3 players takes off without notification in either or both TS and chat, they are potentially leaving players behind. We want to make sure everyone gets a chance to get to where they need to be. When the pilot is in a damn hurry, it can hurt the experience of others. This drives more to the heart of the matter which is the lack of team work and communication seen on the server even today. This is a difficult hurdle to jump because there are a lot of players that do not utilize even the most simple of tools which is TS. Those of you that do, thanks. It makes the game much easier to play and organize. Those that do not use TS hurt the gameplay because they have no real way of staying current on intel, coordination insertions/extracts, attacking, maneuvering, etc. It is as simple as it gets and break down is inevitable.

[AlarmedBread]

I think to some level it is good, there have been a few times when people are talking about things that could potentially be very important for me to know, but I have to ask who is saying what. A few times people have got their panties in a bunch over this and told me this ain't tactical blah blah, relax bud We don't always need it, but a little bit of organization is why we're on TS anyway right? Some BSin is good, and if you wanna dominate the channel with BS, there's BS channels for that too!

 

Remember guys that we have had to put in controls to limit who can fly for a reason - everyone wants to fly every helo thats available if they can, and many times there is barely a need for more than one helo to be active at a time.

 

This is the biggest thing I have seen. The supply/demand ratio for air assets is everyone wants to fly. As someone who has pilot/MHQ permissions, I've never flown anything on sparta servers aside from airdom. There has always been plenty clamoring to get in there and play with the stick. Aircraft are loud and annoying, I don't wanna hear idling next to me all night. I for one am glad that there is more structure to air assets, for a while there I was afraid to get into any chopper for fear of not making it to the AO, ever.

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

As the topic title says...Do we really need to use "Tactical" coms during non-tac days?

 

If an admin or SPARTA member who is on decides he wants to play in a loose tactical manner during the week, with structure in teams, the answer is yes. Obviously, he is not requiring anyone to join his group, and those who do not want to use the teamwork asked by the one taking charge wants, do not have to, all we ask is that you join a different TS channel out of respect for those who want to play that way. All piloting falls under the admin's rules, or the person running the side missions.

 

I know it's important to be clear and concise when trying to tell someone something, but some of us are trying to relax by playing Arma 2. When I get someone yelling at me for keeping a holding pattern around the main base (expecting the AO to flip at any moment, and knowing that I'd be yelled at for keeping my rotors spooled up on the ground) I have a hard time relaxing.

 

No point in flying around the base just to wait for extraction requests. No point in keeping your engines on while at base either. I know this is not what you're going for, but it almost looks like pilots do this so others don't get into their helo. I don't think that's what it is, but just want to check. Solution: Wait at base, when asked by acting MC or someone on the ground, spool up and take off.

 

 

 

Hell, moments before I was trying to warn of an enemy SU-25 inbound from the south to the main AO, only to get "CLEAR COMMS!!!" yelled in my ear and to have the whole thing repeated by someone else just seconds later as the yeller doesn't say a word.

 

Calling out something as loud as a jet or helo flying overhead is very redundant, as everyone on the ground can hear them coming in. Probably the reason for the "clear comms" request. Same goes for someone on the ground spotting a lone enemy troop while simultaneously shooting them dead. The "yeller" might have been trying to clear comms for someone else to talk, something I do all the time. There's rarely a time someone yells clear comms for no good reason, even if it's just to get people to stop uselessly calling out unimportant targets. If this is happening as you say, though, I will see.

 

 

Give it a rest,

 

Giving it a rest would mean a shutdown of the server. I don't want anyone to do that.

 

just keep it short and simple. "HQ to AJ, are you headed to EVAC?" "Yeah." "Thanks AJ" is much preferred over "AJsarge this is Headquarters, spool down your engines, I can't hear myself. I don't care that you're leaving for the AO in 5 seconds." *I start lifting off with passengers* "I'm going to Main AO with two passengers to..." "AJsarge, where are you taking that helicopter? I need you to go to the EVAC marked..." etc. etc.

 

Will inquire, but refer to my first response in the meantime.

 

Please, some of us are trying to have fun, and it's hard with people yelling in our ears who think that their snippet can't wait 5 seconds while we finish our snippet.

 

Trust me, telling folks a plane is incoming is not a very important snippet, but I totally understand what you're saying otherwise.

 

I'd rather not need to have to find a new server to play on. You're a great bunch who run a good ship, and I don't want to spoil that.

 

I appreciate the frank talk, but harsh posts, instead of thoughtful ones, will act like a flame in this forum and will ruin the fun for everyone. The people who admin this server and make the rules pay the money for this server to run and for many of us to have a good time. When we have a problem that needs to be hashed out, we are mature enough to handle a PM, or are glad to be pulled out of a TS channel to talk things over, so don't be affraid to talk it over with the person you are having problems with.

 

That being said, we do play mostly on a public server, and moderating it is a tough job for anyone doing it. There's always room for improvement, but it's all in the attitude in which one approaches a mod, whether his requests are fulfilled.

 

I honestly hate how flying choppers is so important to almost everyone who plays on our server. Our mods limit flying because of what Halli says, it's very easy to descend into chaos. We at Sparta put an emphasis on fun through working as a team. We are not a "clan" of Rambos, but a "group" that works together in almost every game we play. When I'm flying, I only have myself to speak for, and that's wrong IMO. If half the time we spent on talking about flying were put to developing ways to make the ground-work more enjoyable, things would run perfectly.

 

Disclaimer: If I find my post isn't consistant, I will edit it accordingly.

[custard~SPARTA~]

To address your question I think we have to try to organise gameplay on the server at all times (I believe it's why ppl come here) otherwise it's just run n gun caos.

 

If any admin (or player) becomes overbearing PM them and talk about it, If I behave like a dick I would like to be told so I can apologise

[Skaz~SPARTA~]

I think Custard is right, the way we play that makes our public server always be packed with people, and usually people that enjoy playing in that way. However, I have to agree with AJsarge, that sometimes it sounds too tactical at midweek gaming. In the middle of the week, I usually like to hop on and do solo for a bit, see what I could do if I were a loner. For me, playing tactical is fun only when everyone has the intent to play tactical. If you try to impose a tactical style of play during the week, when people don't want it, you're just gonna get ticked off and end up not enjoying anything.

[T_1]

+1 Custard.

 

What people need to remember is we try to provide a consistent level of game play for players.

 

 

Just because you want to play in a particular manner, does not mean that others do. Some people may want to play in a less formal manner, others may have spent the previous 30 minutes putting on their BDU's before turning on their PC. We try to cater for all tastes. However you can please some of the people etc etc

 

[Fenrir]

BTW guys, on notes like these, are mics mandatory for just playing etc on days when it's too serious ? (as in, when your just playing and not doing the full....operation goose neck, swing round, take town stuff etc ? )

 

I ask this because, i'd like to come play with you again at some point, but my mic is broken atm and i havnt/cant get a new 1 yet because

 

1. Short on money ^^

2. I havnt had much reason because i've been spending time away from online for a while

 

I understand though that i wouldnt be able to fly helo's due to lack of coms (or want to with lack of coms, for that matter ....too much AA lol ^^ )

[IDAN]

BTW guys, on notes like these, are mics mandatory for just playing etc on days when it's too serious ? (as in, when your just playing and not doing the full....operation goose neck, swing round, take town stuff etc ? )

 

I ask this because, i'd like to come play with you again at some point, but my mic is broken atm and i havnt/cant get a new 1 yet because

 

1. Short on money ^^

2. I havnt had much reason because i've been spending time away from online for a while

 

I understand though that i wouldnt be able to fly helo's due to lack of coms (or want to with lack of coms, for that matter ....too much AA lol ^^ )

you can join the public server any time but without ts ability, you can't use Vehicles(can sit in the back of chopper)

when the server is been moderated text to the admin that you are not on ts but still would like to Participate

the coordinated work.

 

[AJsarge]

Sorry about stirring up a hornet's nest here. I was a bit cranky when posting originally (still am, and sore too, but for a different reason) and wanted to get it out of my system. But the original intent was about people (anyone BTW, not just one or two guys) being overly "tactical" on TS (even beyond the tac-dom friday level) to an absurd level.

 

It's a part request, part discussion-maker on the topic, post.

 

Example: "[sender] to [Receiver], [request]" "[Receiver] Clarify?" "[clarified]" "[receiver confirmation]"

 

"HQ to AJ, can you EVAC troops out of the AO?" "This is AJ, where is the EVAC marked?" "Just south of town" "Roger, on my way."

 

or even just...

 

"HQ to AJ, can you EVAC troops out of last AO?" "This is AJ, Roger. Mark an EVAC for me please"

 

 

I'm sorry for stepping on any toes in the process.

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

Its important to remember that we are all human and subject to cranky days. Like all of you I am sometimes in a bad mood and this is reflected in the manner in which I speak. I hope I am never disrespectful. I try to keep my mouth shut when I am not in the best of moods.

 

By the same token it is not a good idea to post in a public forum in the heat of the moment. Make a draft of what you want to say and sleep on it, then read it again in the morning. Often you will be surprised by the tone of your draft and choose to tone it down, looking at the topic from the readers perspective and thinking about how they may react. Your choice.

 

I usually follow this advice but on the few occasions I haven't there have been consequences, sadly.

 

Like Halli said, you like coming here and you are welcome here, we do the best we can by being who we are. Some like who we are others dont. Those that dont have moved on and those that do know what to expect, warts and all.

 

All pilots please note the noise outside the chopper/jet is deafening and worse for people with seperate speaker/mike systems. Which is why we ask everyone to turn their engines off whilst waiting.

 

Cheers

Z