Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) Hello all, In case you have missed this: This discovery has grabbed the attention of scientists all over the world. Enough so that it appears most of the large radio telescopes on the planet are going to be focusing on this star. http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/15/world/extraterrestrial-intelligence-anomaly/index.html The above is just one story on it of many. It appears to be hitting most of the major news networks. Edited October 18, 2015 by Zathrus~SPARTA~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 I should have added, to me it really does not matter what it turns out to be. It is totally new... something never before seen by science. Totally new things can lead to more discoveries and new path's in physics. So to me this is big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter~SPARTA~ Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 While I agree it is an interesting scientific opportunity, I think the immediate jump to "alien superstructure" is a bit absurd. Finding intelligent life elsewhere in the universe would certainly be exciting, but this object is almost 1,500 light years away. No one alive today will see anything really come from this discovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringle~SPARTA~ Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 While I agree it is an interesting scientific opportunity, I think the immediate jump to "alien superstructure" is a bit absurd. Finding intelligent life elsewhere in the universe would certainly be exciting, but this object is almost 1,500 light years away. No one alive today will see anything really come from this discovery. I agree - Correlating an unusual annual flicker from some distant star to alien technology is well, as Hunter put it, absurd. My money is on some yet discovered natural phenomenon. Time (lots of it) will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cylawyer~SPARTA~ Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 It's not absurd to think this could be a sign of extraterrestrial technology, but it is a less likely albeit feasible explanation. That said, it is interesting to note that this is the first observation of this kind of flickering on a star this age and as an oddity, all feasible explanations should be on the table until we are able to rule them out. One thing I disagree with is Hunter's assertion that no one alive today will see anything come from this discovery. With the accelerating pace of our observation equipment and thus of observable features around our galaxy and universe, I would not be surprised if we determine exactly what this is within a few years/decade. I think it is a very exciting time in planetary science. I do suspect this will end up being something natural, but by no means is the door shut on extraterrestrial technology and therefore it should be a priority to investigate. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Whoa! I am not saying this is alien technology. I am scientific minded person... I was famous during my career for the phrase "Show me the Data". (I had to ask that question far too often in my career btw) I believe this is likely natural. But that does not make it a less important discovery in my eyes. I am super excited about this. Whatever this is... blocks almost 20% of this star's light. A planet blocks roughly 1% of a star's light. This is something completely new by all appearances. In addition, it seems to have an irregular orbital period. It has consistently blocked 20% of the star's light whenever it appears over the last 4 years. This is why it has grabbed the attention of Scientists, and soon the focus of many radio telescopes. This is something we have never seen before. So whatever is there is likely really big. It is doing things that do not make sense to us right now. Historically, every time we have discovered something that did not make sense to us... it has advanced our understanding of the Universe. There are always those that choose speculation over scientific method. But really speculation is fairly useless for anything other than entertainment. Yes, some scientists have admitted that it COULD be some kind of artificial structure, but that is one of millions of possibilities they must investigate. It is much more likely to be a natural phenomenon we have not encountered before. One of the reasons for putting large radio telescopes on it immediately, is to help answer some speculation immediately. All technology is very noisy to radio telescopes. In addition, the noise created by technology is unique from nature. There are no natural phenomena we know of that produce noise in the frequencies technology produces noise. So listening to it for awhile, will tell us what it likely is not... or is... time will tell. Edited October 19, 2015 by Zathrus~SPARTA~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 I have found the article linked below that I think explains much better why this is an AMAZING scientific discovery. http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/innovation/have-scientists-discovered-alien-civilization-not-so-fast-n445161 This is just very very different from anything we have encountered before. This is going to be really big I think. Something that could easily help us with some very interesting questions in physics. Historically, things that we find that do not make sense to us... have shown us where some theories are wrong... and right. But it is always an advancement of our understanding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrester~SPARTA~ Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 HAHAHAHAHAHA! pretty good Forrester I actually think the the "artificial structure" type idea would be more like this There will always be these guys But speculation is useless for anything other than entertainment. But really based on how we know things work... whatever that thing is out there... does not make much sense to us right now. That is why this is likely a huge scientific discovery. Whenever something like this comes a long, it forces us to look at things a bit differently and we learn new things. Sometimes new path's of theory open up, any discovery that we cannot make sense of immediately is fuel that advances our understanding of the universe. That is why this is likely really big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MH6~SPARTA~ Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Probably just asteroids/debris/dust/etc. However, I love the fact that SETI is making the effort to listen to this system on the off chance they can gleam some more information from it. Anything that can increase public interest in space is a good thing, and who knows--maybe it will result in increased funding for programs like SETI. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 Yes actually the current theory is it is likely a cloud of comets or something like that... which causes a whole new set of questions to get asked. The things that make this a must investigate for SETI and every science associated with space are as follows: 1) It blocks 20% of the star's light which suggests whatever it is... it is really big since a planet blocks roughly 1% of a star's light. 2) It appears to have a varying orbital period around the star. (there are countless situations that could create that) 3) The four years they have been watching it seems fairly consistent in blocking 20% of the star's light when it appears. So whatever it is, it is not changing like we would expect clusters of anything to change. The combination of the above make astrophysicists start frothing at the mouth with curiosity.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalXen~SPARTA~ Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Please be a Ringworld. Please don't be the knock on a space alien's door which leads to Independance Day doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halli~SPARTA~ Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 No problem we have allowed Randy Quaid back in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchman~SPARTA~ Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Please be a Ringworld. Please don't be the knock on a space alien's door which leads to Independance Day doom. Read that way too quick and wondered why you wanted it to be a ringworm! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custard~SPARTA~ Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Read that way too quick and wondered why you wanted it to be a ringworm! ROFLMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 haha guys you have been cracking me up Also If anyone is interested: I have run into a couple of interesting articles on this discovery by Kepler. Both I think explain well what I mean when I say... it does not matter what this turns out to be, the research on this area is going to teach us some very cool things. The second article also talks about why even though Scientists believe these signals have likely been produced by comet cluster events of some type produced by effects of another relatively close star system, it is absolutely fine (and scientifically correct) for them to check for all other potential causes that have any kind of a statistically valid possibility. That would include artificial structures... which is one of over 100 statistically possible causes they are checking. Yes most are natural, but artificial must be accounted for also because it is statistically possible. But data will help us figure out what it really is. Discoveries like this tend to give huge payoff's in expanding our understanding of how things work in this universe... The important thing is they are collecting data. In any manner we can, everywhere we can. Speculation might be entertaining for some, but there is no science in speculation. Only data can help us understand what is there. We will know much more about this particular system in a few months I think. This is just far too interesting to not be explored, so I think we will soon see even more major scientific assets being brought to focus on this system. I believe that it is pretty important we investigate what this might be because whatever is capable of blotting out 15% of a star's light one time and then 22% of the star's light the next time is data saying that this thing (or things) are enormous. A planet the size of earth blots out around 1% of our star's light. That star is 1.5 times larger than our star. We probably ought to know what this (or these) huge things are... that apparently wander past this star once in awhile... Especially if it is natural to determine if it may be something "dark & non light reflecting" making it extremely difficult to detect optically except when it eclipses it's star. We may discover we need to be looking for whatever they are... here in our own system's outer orbits.... because these are really big and would be a "currently unknown potential hazard" if it is something that could be in our system also. In my book, good scientists "leave no stone un-turned" because good scientists are thorough. http://www.space.com/30849-bizarre-kepler-signal-alien-intelligence-speculation.html?li_source=LI&li_medium=most-popular http://news.discovery.com/space/alien-life-exoplanets/has-kepler-discovered-an-alien-megastructure-151014.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter~SPARTA~ Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 One thing I disagree with is Hunter's assertion that no one alive today will see anything come from this discovery. With the accelerating pace of our observation equipment and thus of observable features around our galaxy and universe, I would not be surprised if we determine exactly what this is within a few years/decade. When I say that, I mean it more literally. There will certainly be mounds of theories, assumptions, guesstimates, and probabilities published in regards to what KIC 8462852 might be/could be/probably is. I mean to say that there will be no concrete facts known about this star and/or whatever object or event is causing us to perceive a 20% loss of light. I just want to put this in perspective for a moment. Pluto is 0.0004967903919916 light years away from Earth. KIC 8462852 is 1,500 light years. It took New Horizons 9 years, 5 months to reach Pluto and take relatively low quality images that in turn takes an entire hour for each image to be transmitted back to Earth. Now, even assuming exponential growth in Earth's ability to invent and manufacture orbital telescopes... and also assuming there are no issues with launch vehicles to get said technology into space... I still do not believe we will get any real answers about this discovery in our lifetime or our children's lifetimes. But hey, I've been wrong before. I wouldn't mind be wrong about this, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Hunter.... I think possibly you do not realize how many assets we have in place already.... that are looking far beyond our solar system. Much of what we need to look at this system is already out there. I think you underestimate the amount of data we can collect. We have actually applied several of these assets to the system already.... which is why it is down to comet cluster events or even potentially artificial. The other natural things we know of have been eliminated. Now it is time to learn some new things. To think that nothing useful or concrete can come from studying this system is patently wrong. Just because we cannot go there does not mean we cannot collect meaningful data. Granted, it is data on things that happened 1500 years ago, but that does not matter when your knowledge of the universe is infantile like ours is. We have much to learn. Edited October 22, 2015 by Zathrus~SPARTA~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter~SPARTA~ Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) Hunter.... I think possibly you do not realize how many assets we have in place already.... that are looking far beyond our solar system. Much of what we need to look at this system is already out there. I think you underestimate the amount of data we can collect. I am fully aware of what collection systems we currently have. My profession in the military is to work with our satellites in orbit. That's all I can really say on that subject. The amount of data we collect and the quantity of assets is irrelevant. Not only do we not have the technology to clearly see that far into the universe, we do not understand nearly enough about space in general to properly analyze the information we can currently obtain. As you said, our knowledge is simply infantile. Our "best guess" at this point in history is based on fluctuations in light levels. We can't even be certain that our current assumptions and theories about the way light travels through space is concrete enough to base any ideas on what we're observing. Granted, it is data on things that happened 1500 years ago This is another extremely valid point that I had intended to make in my last post and forgot. Everything we see today, actually occurred 1500 light years in the past. For all we know, that star has already exploded and completely obliterated any form of life or other evidence of cosmic events that would provide more information on what is causing this 20% light reduction. As I said before, don't misunderstand me. I do agree that this is certainly an exciting discovery and could very well lead to another break through discovery and maybe even revolutionize our understanding of space. My only point is that I don't understand why everyone is so quick to try and label everything when we just simply cannot possibly know what it is we're really looking at. And as much as I would like the general populace to get excited about space and to further support our scientific community in exploring said space... this trend of calling everything we don't immediately understand "possible alien life or intelligence" is just tiresome. Edited October 23, 2015 by Hunter~SPARTA~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 And as much as I would like the general populace to get excited about space and to further support our scientific community in exploring said space... this trend of calling everything we don't immediately understand "possible alien life or intelligence" is just tires I can agree with that. To me these scientific discoveries are very exciting. But the constant noise created by those who wish to profit on "aliens" and other things is very tiresome. We have the news media partially to blame for this but also I think some people just grasp at things. But... I see us learning some very new and exciting things from this star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts