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Inimigo~SPARTA~

By Inimigo~SPARTA~,
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Inimigo~SPARTA~ Newbie

Inimigo~SPARTA~

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Hey guys,

been a while though struggling a lot with my computer (initially needed a fan next to my computer for it not to warmp up from the moment I started a gam -- now I can only 'surf around').

 

Have put the below together and appreciate comments & tips.

 

 

 

 

HDD: OCZ OCZSSD2-2VTXE60G (Light-Retail, Vertex2 Extended) 60 GB

HDD: Samsung HD103SJ (Bulk, SpinPoint F3) 1 TB

Processor: Intel 2500K

Cooler: Scythe Mugen 2 Rev.B SCMG-2100

Mobo: MSI P67A-C45

Memory: Corsair 8 GB DDR3-1333

Case: Aerocool XPredator Black Edition

regular DVD-writer

Windows 7 Home Premium

Graphics: MSI N480GTX TWIN FROZR II

PSU: Antec TruePower New Series TP-750

 

Thanks /Inimigo

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NoScream~SPARTA~ Newbie

NoScream~SPARTA~

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Hey guys,

been a while though struggling a lot with my computer (initially needed a fan next to my computer for it not to warmp up from the moment I started a gam -- now I can only 'surf around').

 

Have put the below together and appreciate comments & tips.

 

 

 

HDD: OCZ OCZSSD2-2VTXE60G (Light-Retail, Vertex2 Extended) 60 GB

HDD: Samsung HD103SJ (Bulk, SpinPoint F3) 1 TB

Processor: Intel 2500K

Cooler: Scythe Mugen 2 Rev.B SCMG-2100

Mobo: MSI P67A-C45

Memory: Corsair 8 GB DDR3-1333

Case: Aerocool XPredator Black Edition

regular DVD-writer

Windows 7 Home Premium

Graphics: MSI N480GTX TWIN FROZR II

PSU: Antec TruePower New Series TP-750

 

Thanks /Inimigo

 

 

Mobo: MSI P67A-C45

A DDR3 motherboard with only 2 banks of memory?

 

DDR3 motherboards with 3 banks of dimms (that's either 3 6 or 9 memory slots) running DDR3 in dual banks is the worst compromise, DDR3 is natively slower than DDR2, till you run them in banks of 3, then they are faster....

 

HDD: OCZ OCZSSD2-2VTXE60G (Light-Retail, Vertex2 Extended) 60 GB

I promise you, 120GB SSD is the way to go, you will need it for the boot drive.

 

Cooler: Scythe Mugen 2 Rev.B SCMG-2100

Big air cooler? no no no....

Small Liquid cooler, sealed for life 10 year guarantee on parts and labour.

like a H50 or H70

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/corsair-h50-1-hydro-high-performance-cpu-watercooler-lga775-1155-1156-1366-am2-2plus-am3?utm_source=google+shopping

 

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cooling/2009/07/29/corsair-hydro-h50-cpu-cooler-review/1

If you do a H50 or H70, make sure you double FAN it ( run the fan you get with it & an extra fan in a PUSH PULL config.

 

SEE HERE: http://www.legionofspartans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4215

 

 

 

IF your budget is tight then the triple channel DDR3 is the important one...

with a motherboard to suit

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Inimigo~SPARTA~ Newbie

Inimigo~SPARTA~

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Thanks for the reply RViiiper.

SSD 60 Gig would be for the basics only (OS, Office stuff & 1 or 2 games). Additional reason for not choosing a bigger one is the budget indeed.

Mobo: will look into that again

Cooler: I'm not familiar and confident enough to mess with a water cooling, though appreciate the info.

 

 

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EBE Newbie

EBE

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ello

 

On Win_7 : (64bit :-)

 

If you use programs on xp mode (old programs..) then(win7)PROFESSIONAL is the way to go ..(look it up )

 

for a few bucks more more ... unless you don't need it .

 

(don't get a mini case )

Edited by EBE
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Batwing~SPARTA~ Newbie

Batwing~SPARTA~

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@ Inimigo

 

That cooler is a universal one. Will be able to work on any possible socket because it comes with the kit to mount it.

 

About the SSD, i strongly discourage you from going on the 60GB. It s really too small. I was discussing this with a friend the other day.

When you make a fresh install of Win7 it will take around 18GB, true... but then after a few months you use it, the OS grows up to about 35GB and this is mostly due to the hidden folders related the Applications, ususally located into the /User folder.

 

Fact is that alot of programs, althogh instaled on another drive or partition, still need to store quantities of data on C, doesn t matter what. Also all of the Temp storage is on C (althoug you could relocate it on a different location, but then you might slow down some temp reading not being on SSD).

 

Buttom line, after about 1 year of usage you will find yourself with a quite large Windows OS partition and just a small spare room for anything else.

 

I strongly suggest to go at least 90GB if you cannot afford 120.

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Inimigo~SPARTA~ Newbie

Inimigo~SPARTA~

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thanks for the info batwing.

will keep it in mind, though it's a difference of 100 euro ...

 

still didn't order, as in fact not everything was available.

for now I'm thinking of this:

 

HDD: Crucial 64GB or 128 GB (RealSSD C300, SATA600)

HDD: Seagate Barracuda 1 TB (2x)

Processor: Intel 2500K

Cooler: Corsair H50-1

Mobo: MSI P67A-GD65 or Asus P8P67-M

Memory: Kingston Valueram 8 GB DDR3-1333

Case: Coolermaster CM690 II Advanced

regular DVD-writer

Windows 7 Ultimate 64-biz

Graphics: MSI 2GB D5 X R6950

PSU: Antec TruePower New Series TP-750

+DVD-writer, 2 extra 120 mm fans, SSD-bracket

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Batwing~SPARTA~ Newbie

Batwing~SPARTA~

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It sounds good... I just have a question

 

 

8 GB RAM DDR3... Rememebr DDR3 performs the best on the triple channel, but 8 GB is not divisible by 3, so I suppose it will be 2 banks 4GB each.

 

If you have triple channel RAM setting on the MoBo, go with it. Classic 6 GB config will be perfectly fine for your needs.

 

If you have only a dual channel setting on your MoBo, then the 8 GB in dual channel will be the forced solution. If you can google the difference in performance between 2 and 3 channels.

 

I cant find that article I read long ago but the meaning of the DDR3 was having sorta of a triple burst of data, reason why the triple channel match the best.

How did they adjust a structure DDR3 to burst on 2 channels, it sounds a bottleneck somewhere to me.

 

But you know guys...Marketing is a powerful science :)

Edited by Batwing~SPARTA~
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NoScream~SPARTA~ Newbie

NoScream~SPARTA~

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Just to back up BatWing,

 

DDR3 RAM has poor latency (read write cycles)

DDR2 RAM has good latency (read write cycles)

 

RAM is measured with 2 factors: (SPEED) Frequency measured in mMhz (megahertz) 800,1066 etc etc and

Access times measured in CYCLES (or clock ticks) 3,6,8,9,15 etc etc...

 

This means that if a slice of RAM has 3 write 3 read 3 wait cycles it will take 9 cycles to make one read & write function,

that is 3 to read, 3 to wait & 3 to write. now all that @ 1000 Mhz (for example) is done in a bank of 2 RAM MODULES, that

is what DDR 2 does (addressing memory in dual data mode).

 

when you look at DDR3 read, write & wait cycle access times they are way worse in general, around 6,6,6 or 8,8,8 etc etc...

at the same speed that would be slow in a bank of two modules (3,3,3, v 6,6,6 @ 1000Mhz example).

 

Where DDR3 gets it's lift (kick) is in triple channel reading & writing like with BANKS of three modules.

because:

 

TWO DDR2 modules doing 3,3,3 is slower than three DDR3 doing 6,6,6 in effect the 6,6,6, is like a total of 2,2,2, (each module supplying data @ 6 ticks but there is three of them.

 

Now to compensate for the high latency of DDR3 some effort has been made by manufacturers to lift the SPEED from DDR2 normal 800/1066/1333 to DDR3 new speeds of 1600,2000

 

================

 

Your list: DDR3 in dual banks

 

Kingston Valueram 8 GB DDR3-1333

http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/KVR1333D3N9K2_8G.pdf

Memory Size 8 GB

Memory Technology DDR3 SDRAM

Number of Modules 2 x 4 GB

Memory Speed 1333 MHz

Memory Standard DDR3-1333/PC3-10667

Manufacturer Part Number KVR1333D3N9K2/8G

Manufacturer Website Address www.kingston.com

Brand Name Kingston

Product Line ValueRAM

Product Model KVR1333D3N9K2/8G

Product Name ValueRAM 8GB DDR3 SDRAM Memory Module

Product Type RAM Module

The SPDs are programmed to JEDEC standard latency 1333Mhz timing of 9-9-9 at 1.5V

 

 

 

 

:beatdeadhorse:

 

two 9,9,9 cycles @ 1333 is slower than two DDR2 dimms CL 5-6-6-18 (CAS-TRCD-TRP-TRAS) @ 1066

49 v 59 full cycles.

 

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-149-OC&groupid=701&catid=8&subcat=817

 

Basically memory can be accessed dependent on Frequency (speed 1333 or 1066 cycles divided by number of total read/write & wait cycles, total cycles)

 

How many times can your system ACCESS the memory... divide freq/by clk tl.

your DDR3 memory total is 27 cycles @ 1333 = 49

example DDR2 memory total is 18 cycles @ 1066 = 59

 

I've simplified this but I hope your getting the idea.

 

BEST is DDR3 in triple channel mode (3 of) lowest cycles for access x,x,x,x with fastest speed (frequency).

 

 

 

NOW if your board took DDR3 in triple channel (3 of) then each would have 49 access but times 3

total 3x 49 = 147

 

NOW the dual DDR2 would be 2x 59 = 118 (slower in total)

 

:thumbsup_anim:

 

p.s. before you say it, low latency DDR3 costs a fortune !

 

 

 

 

You need a motherboard that supports DDR3 in triple channels 3 slots or 6 slots etc etc...... :exclaim:

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Batwing~SPARTA~ Newbie

Batwing~SPARTA~

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Holy Cannoli Viiper !!

 

I got nuts to google all of that stuff and you put it down better than any Wiki-thingy out there :)

 

and... ahem.. yeah.. that was exactly what I meant to say... with my previous comment... lol..

 

Thank you Viiper :)

 

EDIT:

 

Inimigo,

 

I would suggest you this 6950 model:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102914&cm_re=hd_6950-_-14-102-914-_-Product

 

I got it few weeks ago, not only is an amazing card, Sapphire ahs a great tool to OC it calle Trixx and is wonderful and MOST IMPORTANTLY, this model can be modded to be a 6970 in literally 10 seconds.

I have it modded, is working like a charm and is the best you can have for that money.

 

EDIT 2:

 

Inimigo,

 

I was also thinking about your CPU choice. you are going toward a Sandybridge system, however I am not sure if your choice is due to budget or other reasons.

 

Fact is, Sandybridge although is the most recent Intel born, is not necessarely the best performing. The reason why this new architecture is buzzing at the moment is because can be a great solution for Mainstream machines mostly oriented to Multimedia.

The major perk on Sandybridge is the Video managemnt on board on your CPU. You are buying a discrete high performance videocard, so you are defeating one of the most important aspects of this CPU.

 

Considering you are building a brand new machine, evaluate your budget to go toward the first gen i7 processors which are still considered the Hi-End performers. The i7 920 with his enourmous OC capability might be an excellent solution for you, coupled with a good DDR3 triple channel X58 MB.

I do believe you should be able to find solutions for this config at very respecatble prices.

 

The second gen i7 and i5 CPU where potentially less performing than the first gen and also were focusing on Mainstream machines and not fully Hi-Ends builds. Second gen improved power consumption I do believe, but traded some performances aspects (like using DDR3 in dual channel only with the new socket implementation). Second gen i7 - 5 machines are built to cost less, trading some top end performances.

 

Sandybridge also is oriented to improve other aspect in very effordable builds (video managemnt) but you are not going to enjoy those on your build.

 

Venerable Viiper.. please .. spoke your verb about this....

Edited by Batwing~SPARTA~
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NoScream~SPARTA~ Newbie

NoScream~SPARTA~

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I have always found tom's CPU chart a good source of info for comparisons

 

 

chart

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-2010/3DMark-Vantage-High,2418.html

 

tested on graphics, 3DMark Vantage High

 

comparison 920 v 2500K

Compare Intel Core i5-2500K (Sandy Bridge 4c), Intel Core i7-920 (Bloomfield 4c/8t)

 

there about the same...

 

personally I prefer 4c + 4t (4 cores + 4 threads) v 4c alone.

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Inimigo~SPARTA~ Newbie

Inimigo~SPARTA~

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Gentlemen, appreciate the replies.

Meanwhile I went to buy the computer (right after work). Unfortunately our server blocks forums, so couldn't read the additional comments.

 

This is what I got:

 

Processor: Sandy-Bridge 2500 K

PSU: Antec Truepower 750 ATX23

DVD-writer: samsung

HDD: Seagate Barracuda 1 TB

SDD: Crucial 128 GB (RSSDC300)

Ram: 8 GB Kingston Valueram

Cooling: Corsair H50-1

Graphics: Sapphire 6950 (2GB)

Motherboard: MSI P67A-GD65

Windows 7 Pro (64bit)

Case: Coolermaster CM690 II Advanced

Extra fans: 2x120 mm fans (Scythe Slip Stream 800)

 

Will add my old 700 GB HDD as well.

 

Hope to have put everything together by Saturday and will post pictures then :-)

 

Let the games begin !

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Inimigo~SPARTA~ Newbie

Inimigo~SPARTA~

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small update: everything put together (stil need to take pics, but had visitors over the whole day).

 

initial problem found (with latest video-card drivers): stutter (like a 1-full-second freeze) in games (like Battlefield Bad Company 2 & Left 4 Dead 2). strange...

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Donziboy2 Newbie

Donziboy2

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Guys.... Its a 4 Dimm board, 2 duel channel sets stop crying about him not using 3 dimms......... 1155 and 1156 boards us dual dimm slots not triple dimm slots.

 

From some of the benchmarks ive seen they have given the new 1155 chips more bandwidth for the memory. Something in the area of 1gbps faster then a 1156 board, as for 2 dimms vs 3 dimms, its more down to mhz and Cas latency then anything else that you will notice.

 

As for CPU HSF, most 1156 heatsinks will fit 1155.

 

Seems like a pretty decent system Inimigo.

Hows the spacing of the Scythe HSF, im looking at getting one for my next build but most of the ram ive seen that I like in terms of specs have those silly tall heatsinks on them and I dont want to run into clearance issues with the cpu and ram heatsinks.

 

Have you memtest the ram and done a stability test on cpu?

 

How are the overclock options ive heard the new Bios's are kinda eye sores?

 

Also heard the OC Gene isnt that great and it likes to overvolt the cpu's. So manual OC is safer if you intend to do it.

 

BTW sorry I didnt see your post sooner.

Edited by Donziboy2
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Inimigo~SPARTA~ Newbie

Inimigo~SPARTA~

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hi guys, was out the whole day, so couldn't mess with the computer yet.

 

confirm the dual channel ram on those sandy-bridges.

will have to look up the programs used to test all my hardware ... if someone has the links at hand, thanks to share them.

guess I should test ram, video card, cpu ...

 

not looking to overclock anything at the moment, as I don't know anything about it (and fear I'd automatically overclock my 1333Hz ram as well, right? --> it's value-ram, so guess not suited for overclocking).

 

bios is -to say the least- "weird" ... it's nice looking (you can even use your mouse) ...

didn't install the scythe fans yet ... didn't feel like it. as for the corsair H50, it's very nice looking and easy to install. very nice.

 

again, will try to post some pictures asap (you all should see my previous set-up as well --> NO CABLE-MANAGEMENT AT ALL :P)

 

cheers

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Inimigo~SPARTA~ Newbie

Inimigo~SPARTA~

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Good job my man, have fun :) hey.. about the H50, did u used the double fan suggestion? front-rear setting ?

 

yessir, push-pull config.

 

hey, I used to use EVEREST to check temperatures and stuff ... re-installed it, though cannot read any temp of my graphics card. is this normal? any suggestions?

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Inimigo~SPARTA~ Newbie

Inimigo~SPARTA~

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Not sure about Everest.

 

About temps I use Coretemp for CPU and GPU-Z for Video and I do trust the ATI reading from CCC. If you got Sapphire, install the amazing TriXX utility :)

 

send me the TriXX software if you can ... having trouble reading the S/N

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NoScream~SPARTA~ Newbie

NoScream~SPARTA~

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Hey guys,

been a while though struggling a lot with my computer (initially needed a fan next to my computer for it not to warmp up from the moment I started a gam -- now I can only 'surf around').

 

Have put the below together and appreciate comments & tips.

 

 

 

 

HDD: OCZ OCZSSD2-2VTXE60G (Light-Retail, Vertex2 Extended) 60 GB

HDD: Samsung HD103SJ (Bulk, SpinPoint F3) 1 TB

Processor: Intel 2500K

Cooler: Scythe Mugen 2 Rev.B SCMG-2100

Mobo: MSI P67A-C45

Memory: Corsair 8 GB DDR3-1333

Case: Aerocool XPredator Black Edition

regular DVD-writer

Windows 7 Home Premium

Graphics: MSI N480GTX TWIN FROZR II

PSU: Antec TruePower New Series TP-750

 

Thanks /Inimigo

 

 

Read.... Sandy Bridge RECALL

http://www.legionofspartans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8096&pid=69079&st=0entry69079

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