Operation Moshtarak: "Battle of Marjah"

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Sounds like a big offensive is underway in Afganistan. Sounds like they are doing the same strategy as they did during Operation Anaconda by sealing off escape routes first. I'd give a link, but the only one I can find at the moment is from AP and the are the worst to turn to for information on military operations and you won't get any beneficial information.

 

Until I can find a suitable story, I'd suggest you keep looking at the links below

 

www.longwarjournal.com

 

www.michaeltotten.com

 

Prayers for those on the good side of the battle.

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

Is Postal still there?

[Halli~SPARTA~]

No in Missisppi At the readyness center preping for deployment with the Hq.

 

Soon though very soon.

[MedicSN6]

Time to kick the tires and light the fires big daddy!

 

Hooah and Semper Fi! Kick some ass boys!

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Yep, looks like we're going after the center of the talifarts opium trade, and more importantly, their supply base. Lots of mines, lots of civillians for potential use by the enemy, lots to go right or wrong.

 

Keep yourself updated, and pay attention to our tactics.

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

Smart to go for the money.

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Lines of supply have always been the first to go during a large war, and always a constant target throughout. Railways have been a target since the American civil war. Before that, gunpowder production or storage facilities. Before that, water and food supplies.

 

There are interesting reports of the intricacies of combat on a large scale, most notably the use of different colored smoke to mark friendly units, and the use of mine-rollers to make lanes through the battlefield.

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Some photos....

 

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2010/02/tali...n.html#comments

 

Along with some details of the battle...

 

http://www.understandingwar.org/report/ope...g-battle-marjah

[Skaz~SPARTA~]

why do they release such battle plans before an offensive, to give the afghans an "edge"?

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

why do they release such battle plans before an offensive, to give the afghans an "edge"?

 

Operations have been building up for a couple weeks now, and it's most-likely impossible for the talis to get online to check while the lead-up is happening, although it's not impossible.

 

As I understood, and I hope I'm wrong, only one battalion of Marines and one Battalion of Afghans will be the main assault against 1,000 taliban and possibly a lot more civillians fighting for their poppies?

 

This is gonna be a big one. The area is flat with a lot of canals, and is highly defensible, and these folks aren't leaving, but are moving in supplies and building defenses. That article said they've had months to prepare. It reminds me a lot of Falluja.

 

EDIT: Here's a google map of the place. I'm guessing the "five points" area is in the lower-left

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=31.506053,6...p;t=h&hl=en

[ragnarok92~SPARTA~]

Gotta feel bad for those marines, urban warfare is a nightmare. Sadly they cant level the whole place because it makes bad publicity among the locals. Makes me wonder, why would you choose to live in a place that you know is gonna be bombed eventually? Even better, why would you stick around unless you are a terrorist.

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Gotta feel bad for those marines, urban warfare is a nightmare. Sadly they cant level the whole place because it makes bad publicity among the locals. Makes me wonder, why would you choose to live in a place that you know is gonna be bombed eventually? Even better, why would you stick around unless you are a terrorist.

 

 

Humans can be very stubborn creatures, especially in rural or mountain cultures. There are a couple factors at play in this area, though.

 

1. The taliban are most-likely threatening some civillians and their families if they leave, and this town is probably no bigger than 5-10k, which means they can exercise some control. History backs this up.

 

2. Many of the farmers that work in this town work alongside the taliban and gain their livelyhood from the opium trade. We may be fighting more than a paramilitary group, but probably something like a drug-cartel as well. I was astounded how much money the tali's make off taxing these farms.

 

3. Where would they go? A refugee camp?

 

The people of this area have known an attack was coming for months, and have had time to either leave or barracade themselves in. These people are no stranger to warfare. The taliban took this area back a while ago, after it was owned by coalition forces. Most civillians in their 20s have more combat experience than any Ranger. The difference is that they will see a new type of warfare soon, one that will completely and literally rock their world. I don't want to see any civillians killed, but if this turns out to be a major battle that takes the taliban's ability to supply itself, and helps end this war sooner, so be it.

 

I would expect to see in the coming days an early mismanagement of the battlefield on the Afghan-Army side, along with a few Friendly-Fire instances. Also, keep an eye on how the Marines manuver through the area with the bridge layers and engineers, trying to get around the pre-arranged choke points set up by the enemy. I'd say there will be a lot of tunnels and "rat-lines" as well.

[Kavlarakos~SPARTA~]

I just read on a german site about operation Moshtarak. BTW Moshtarak means in Dari "together" because aside the Us troops there are fighting alot Afghani coalition troops.

 

The Afghani government prepared themselves for refugees but from the 80000 civilians there left only 2800 people until now. The people living in this region feel disregarded by the government in Kabul so that it was and it is easy for the Taliban to win their attention.

 

Another fact is that many years ago the US government helped building irrigation channels in this region to support the local agricultural infrastructure with the effect that poppy plantations became posibble and with it the opium production.

These channels are also the reason why the troops now can not use armour because manouvering has become nearly impossible and also another sideeffect is that these channels seem to be a good hideout for enemy sniper- and trap positions.

[andrewman~SPARTA~]

The Taliban grew out of Lashkar Gah during the period after the Soviet invasion, it is therefore their home and why the fighting has been fierce since the coalition forces rolled south from Kabul to Kandahar in 2003.

 

There are a number of unreported factors that have affected the scale and timing of this operation.

 

Kav you have a good point, international money was used to irrigate the green zone to tempt the local farmers away from opium to other cash crops, but this collapsed in the face of better prices for the illicit narcotics. Last years crop was the best ever under NATO noses!

 

I watch with my fingers crossed that there are enough NATO troops to secure what will be taken and that the ANA under the direction of the OMLT's, perform well enough to minimise NATO casualities.

 

Good thread ------

 

 

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

There's a story going around where the Allies are dropping leafelets naming names of commanders in town who are targeted, or who have already been killed. The PSYOP operations are pretty heavy, and one writer stated that the best way to get in touch with the enemy is trying to find a way to send txt messages to the enemy in town. Personally, PSYOP is great and they have very crafty ways of getting into the enemy's head (I've seen loudspeaker hmwvvs blast sounds of tanks heading in the opposite direction of where the real tanks were going), but I'd much rather dispense with trying to make peace with the talibn and instead of getting them to disperse or leave the fight, I'd herd them into a grouping.

 

I'm not really for taking prisoners at this point, and I'd just rather eliminate anyone identified as a combatant.

 

And Andrew, no matter how many coalation troops participate, the Marines will make sure they were the only ones put in the books as fighting

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Battle Map....

 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/02...afghan-map.html

 

Looks like it's begun.

[andrewman~SPARTA~]

Last night, all over UK news this morning.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8513092.stm

Edited February 13, 2010 by andrewman~SPARTA~

[Lightspeed~SPARTA~]

I don't want to see any civillians killed, but if this turns out to be a major battle that takes the taliban's ability to supply itself, and helps end this war sooner, so be it.

i find this difficult to deal with

Edited February 13, 2010 by Lightspeed~SPARTA~

[andrewman~SPARTA~]

embedded reports from BBC

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8514193.stm

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8514618.stm

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Here's a great article explaining how this battle is different, by the same guy who I keep talking about that wrote the "House to House" book.

 

Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Steetfighting But Never Cared to Ask

[MedicSN6]

i find this difficult to deal with

 

Agreed. But take it from a grunt who has played this game, you can't tell who is who more often than not.

 

They wear no uniforms

They all wear baggy clothing large enough to hide weapons/bombs

They change their clothing to look like other tribes

They do not fight nearly as fair as we do

The intel is very shady through interpreters and though we can tell when someone is lying, we dont know why. They could be a fighter sitting on a cache or could be a civilian who is trying not to get killed by the enemy because their loved one has been abducted or is being held in ransom for food and shelter. who knows? But the enemy is capable of anything.

 

Aside from the obvious, civilian losses are unacceptable. But when the enemy mixes with them and threatens to kill them if they say anything it make the job of a soldier/marine so much more difficult and the enemy knows it.

 

The other side of this is that the weapons are reused, when a Haji gets dropped the enemy will clean up the weapons and the women will (once the US force has left or moved on) drag the bodies into the buildings until they can be identified. There is no real way of saying how many of them were civilians or fighters. But I can assure that our guys dont just go around shooting people for no reason, maybe goats and wild dogs, but not people. The enemy knows that our media works against us most of the time, so if they threaten or kidnap the kid of a gov.t/media person OR if the govt./media person

is a sympathizer, the numbers could be inflated or out-right fabricated, which has happened many times.

The reverse is completely different. If they for instance invaded US soil, they would not only shoot or bomb soldiers they would go house to house and kill everyone by chopping heads off. So while I would never drop a known civilian, if they even acted like they were to pick up a weapon or try and run towards me and I couldn't tell if they were unarmed, including a bulky vest or thick socks, I drop them every time. When the end of the day comes around, I care about me and my buddies far more than I care about Hajis or anyone else for that matter. But I still care about them non-the-less.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Medic~SPARTA~