Let's be sensible shall we?

[PANiC]

couldnt resist a blast on a ZU yesterday, didn;t know vehicles were aout of bounds but tbh i don't use em very often anyway, i much prefer a tank kill in my kill list

 

said in another thread that if it was balanced then it would be TvT - which it isn't. a lot of opfor players hardly play the game as intended either. opfor commander should do everything possible to not get shot so he can command the troops instead of trying to shoot the blufor players. he's way more effective when controlling his troops and armour than picking off 1 or 2 soldiers. opfor commander is a great challenge, that's about it, if you can repel an attack by blufor then that's a really good outcome.

 

i'd say that if you don't like losing then get on the blufor team

Edited January 5, 2010 by PANiC

[MedicSN6]

Guys, it isn't about winning or losing. That was never the issue.

The issue is for the BLUFOR to suicide themselves, then keep respawning or reviving and having an unlimited amount of resources without and repercussions. I thought our desired style was semi formal focusing on pseudo-realistic tactics. SInce when does suicide bombing fall in to this category?

 

And the ability to drive OPFOR armor is not of concern if the rule is outdated or people want to do it again.

The main problem that I had was the suicide crap. I was saying that if this is the way that we are going to play, then we need to change the map to make it more balanced, but if you guys make it a rule to not suicide mission any more, then it should be good the way it is.

 

Suicide missions are an abuse of the respawn function. No one would do it if there weren't respawns available.

 

Sorry if I didn't make that clear in my post above.

 

@Idan, these werent new guys who were driving the tank. But I digress.

 

Thanks to those of you who actually address the main topic of my post... and no, it wasn't about the tank or 'losing.'

Edited January 5, 2010 by Medic~SPARTA~

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

I agree about the suicide bombing and people who para onto the radio tower, its a cheap shot. But the public server is played one way, tac dom is not played that way. In Tac Dom you do not use enemy armour, you do take the tower use guile and tactics with at least a hope of extracting alive.

 

Fair comment, sorry for the misunderstanding.

[PANiC]

did he shout Allahu Akbar on TS before he detonated?

[MedicSN6]

I agree about the suicide bombing and people who para onto the radio tower, its a cheap shot. But the public server is played one way, tac dom is not played that way. In Tac Dom you do not use enemy armour, you do take the tower use guile and tactics with at least a hope of extracting alive.

 

Fair comment, sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

No problem at all. Thanks.

 

 

did he shout Allahu Akbar on TS before he detonated?

He may have, I was in the OPFOR channel. I hope he did. It would have been funny regardless.

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Suicide bombing = Agreed, not consistent with the ethos that most of us play, and definately an abuse of the respawn option.

 

Enemy Vehicles = Agreed with Medic. I don't think Blufor should be able to drive enemy vehicles, which was a surprise to me when I saw a couple guys rolling up to me in a friendly T-72 yesterday. I asked a couple others, who said it had been the precident for the past few days, and being that I haven't been on lately, relented. I drove the tank in support of the bomber, with the intent to protect him, only to see him blow up. Later that night, I talked to Kal about making enemy vehicles undrivable the default. We're still discussing.

 

The larger issue here is that we moderators have not laid out any basic standards of play in our forums. What's acceptable today may not be tomorrow, which leads to confusion and opens things up to exploitation in the future. We'll work on that.

 

Opfor Always Losing = I've always thought the OPFOR to be there just to give Blufor a run for their money, and it can be moreso at times. The trick, as we are learning constantly, is there is a very fine line trying to balance the game properly. One little addition can skew everything, and so we have to work on that all the time.

 

The main point of this thread, and the following posts, is just to play the game on a mature level and not to lose our integrity.

[Ebden~SPARTA~]

Opfor Always Losing = I've always thought the OPFOR to be there just to give Blufor a run for their money, and it can be moreso at times. The trick, as we are learning constantly, is there is a very fine line trying to balance the game properly. One little addition can skew everything, and so we have to work on that all the time.

 

Agreed.

 

Creating a TvP map definitely throws a wrench into the traditional balance concerns, especially since Opfor is forever on the defensive.

 

More a concern though is rule consistency. Using opfor vehicles in the opfor-commander maps as an example, we've been pretty flaky as a group about setting a consistent standard for SPARTA play, since we're all still learning what works.

 

The core rules applicable to MP games are sound (e.g, TKs, asset waste, disruptive play, racism, ect), but the finer points that make SPARTA unique are largely at the whim of the moderator. I've been confused in the past if vehicles are/are not usable w/o TS, and about OPFOR vehicle use as well (sorted now.) If there is doctrine for SPARTA-ARMAII PUBLIC servers, not just Tacdom, then it's buried in one of these longish threads.

 

I don't imagine there's much discussion needed to lay it out, rather it just needs doing by the Senate with a posted result via locked sticky at the top of the ARMA II forum.

[GooniversalSoldier~SPARTA~]

Why not raise the parajump timer again to discourage the tower bombing para jumps? (i myself am guilty of this a couple times ill admit).

[KalXen~SPARTA~]

Already in the works for a 5 minute base delay.

[PANiC]

how about a no fly(parachute) zone, 1km around the OP

or hang a message on the flagpole that says out of order... go get the bus

Edited January 5, 2010 by PANiC

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

The enemy armour has been accessible to bluefor for more than a month not the last few days. I am relaxed about this when there is only AI opfor, but agree that it is unfair when there is an opfor commander.

 

They will be locked by default in the next edition (J).

 

There are some set rules and there are some that we impose depending on the circumstances. We have been strict on the no fly rule so some of us relaxed on the no drive rule. If we lock the Opfor armour, I personally dont care if someone takes a humvee to get somewhere (as long as they dont give my position away) and is not on TS. I care more about the Avengers.

 

Everything is not cast in stone, like Durka says we are constantly adapting and trying to balance the game.

[GooniversalSoldier~SPARTA~]

The enemy armour has been accessible to bluefor for more than a month not the last few days. I am relaxed about this when there is only AI opfor, but agree that it is unfair when there is an opfor commander.

 

They will be locked by default in the next edition (J).

 

There are some set rules and there are some that we impose depending on the circumstances. We have been strict on the no fly rule so some of us relaxed on the no drive rule. If we lock the Opfor armour, I personally dont care if someone takes a humvee to get somewhere (as long as they dont give my position away) and is not on TS. I care more about the Avengers.

 

Everything is not cast in stone, like Durka says we are constantly adapting and trying to balance the game.

 

 

Maybe just execute anyone who even looks at an Avenger? I personally dont care too much about not using red vehicles since you just get tk'd most of the time anyways. i would really love to see the D30's locked out since there are loads of tks that are caused by people firing those. Maybe only allow blue to commandeer red light vehicles (UAZ, VODNIK) so as not to be too un-balancing.

 

That or else give the opfor commander some sort of purpose built Anti armor capability (Mi-24, Su-25/34 that are controllable?) That would really make people think twice about driving a big tank around.

[DaiSan]

The problem we have here is one of SPARTA's definition of a public server (This is not counting the issue of my original post).

 

As far as I see it, this is OUR server, be it open to the public or not, and people use it in sufferance to OUR rules and regulations.

 

Personally, I would prefer it if ALL enemy vehicles and assets were locked to Bluefor.

 

There was a no parachute zone in an active AO.

 

And a 5 minute delay before parajumps in general are enabled when a new AO appears.

 

There will always be things that annoy us on an open server such as the fact that whenever I join a game in progress I tend to kit up and parajump into an unpopulated (by Bluefor) area and go sneaky beaky to get bases or assets (unless requested by a SPARTA person to join X squad etc). Invariably, after 10 mins of sneaking around and marking targets on the map, or sniping a path through to a base, some numpty will just Parajump in ahead of me or right on top of me and spoil the whole show. c'est la vie.

 

But certain things, such as exploits, expected level of behavior and TS rules etc should be prosecuted with vigour because if WE give out mixed messages then people cannot be blamed if they step out of line.

[GooniversalSoldier~SPARTA~]

The problem we have here is one of SPARTA's definition of a public server (This is not counting the issue of my original post).

 

As far as I see it, this is OUR server, be it open to the public or not, and people use it in sufferance to OUR rules and regulations.

 

Personally, I would prefer it if ALL enemy vehicles and assets were locked to Bluefor.

 

There was a no parachute zone in an active AO.

 

And a 5 minute delay before parajumps in general are enabled when a new AO appears.

 

There will always be things that annoy us on an open server such as the fact that whenever I join a game in progress I tend to kit up and parajump into an unpopulated (by Bluefor) area and go sneaky beaky to get bases or assets (unless requested by a SPARTA person to join X squad etc). Invariably, after 10 mins of sneaking around and marking targets on the map, or sniping a path through to a base, some numpty will just Parajump in ahead of me or right on top of me and spoil the whole show. c'est la vie.

 

But certain things, such as exploits, expected level of behavior and TS rules etc should be prosecuted with vigour because if WE give out mixed messages then people cannot be blamed if they step out of line.

 

 

 

We could pump banana phone into the opfor vehicles? That should discourage their use!

 

 

[Rooster]

The enemy armour has been accessible to bluefor for more than a month not the last few days. I am relaxed about this when there is only AI opfor, but agree that it is unfair when there is an opfor commander.

 

They will be locked by default in the next edition (J).

 

There are some set rules and there are some that we impose depending on the circumstances. We have been strict on the no fly rule so some of us relaxed on the no drive rule. If we lock the Opfor armour, I personally dont care if someone takes a humvee to get somewhere (as long as they dont give my position away) and is not on TS. I care more about the Avengers.

 

Everything is not cast in stone, like Durka says we are constantly adapting and trying to balance the game.

While playing as a sniper last night, after a rough and careful battle I was finally able to capture a d30 site occupied my several men. It took so long that I was down to only 2 clips on my 1911... Unfortunately my request for MHQ1 or an ammo drop in the AO could not be serviced or heard over the guys in the air. So finally after taking verifying no enemy in said d30 site, I was down to a single clip... Noticed an infantry element closing in on my position. I was able to use an enemy ammunition truck to drive 1km away to the service depot for ammo and relief. I felt that using the enemy vehicle in this way was ok.

 

While this went on I overheard people using enemy armor and some folks attempting to fly enemy aircraft. To me there is a difference between using enemy armor or vehicles to gain an unfair advantage, and using an enemy transport vehicle when face with an impossible situation. Keep in mind that I don't play for top frag. I play for fewest deaths. To me this is both more challenging and more realistic. What are your thoughts on using the vehicles (properly) only in a dire situation?

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

What are your thoughts on using the vehicles (properly) only in a dire situation?

 

The limits of the game are able to either allow all enemy vehicles to be used, or none. Your actions (which were right) would definately be allowable, but the answer also lies in your statement on how many others were using the vehicles to gain unfair advantage. Your situation may very well be the exception to the rule, but it is just the exception, unfortunately.

[GooniversalSoldier~SPARTA~]

The limits of the game are able to either allow all enemy vehicles to be used, or none. Your actions (which were right) would definately be allowable, but the answer also lies in your statement on how many others were using the vehicles to gain unfair advantage. Your situation may very well be the exception to the rule, but it is just the exception, unfortunately.

 

 

The vehicle people were pretty loud on comms last night. I was attempting to move an MHQ up to the AO, but nobody really wanted to do anything so it didn't happen.

 

I feel like when enemy vehicles are used it destroys any team work that is going on since they invariably charge away leaving the rest of the people sitting about.

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

I feel like when enemy vehicles are used it destroys any team work that is going on since they invariably charge away leaving the rest of the people sitting about.

 

That could be said for friendly vehicles as well, unfortunately. Thats why we focus more on infantry-based tactics.

[GooniversalSoldier~SPARTA~]

That could be said for friendly vehicles as well, unfortunately. Thats why we focus more on infantry-based tactics.

 

 

Agreed...what i mean too is that it becomes some peoples focus to capture the vehicles rather than to play as a team. I think the no-vehicles except for transport is the most fun anyhow.

[MH6~SPARTA~]

My thoughts on being able to drive enemy vehicles:

Allow cars, but not armor/aircraft. Therefore you could commandeer an enemy Vodnik/UAZ should you require it, but not a T-72 or Mi-8. After all, everyone knows how to drive a car. Not everyone knows how to operated a Russian armored assault vehicle.

 

The limits of the game are able to either allow all enemy vehicles to be used, or none...

As I recall there are three parameters:

• Unlock Enemy Cars
• Unlock Enemy Armor
• Unlock Enemy Aircraft

Do these not work?

[GooniversalSoldier~SPARTA~]

My thoughts on being able to drive enemy vehicles:

Allow cars, but not armor/aircraft. Therefore you could commandeer an enemy Vodnik/UAZ should you require it, but not a T-72 or Mi-8. After all, everyone knows how to drive a car. Not everyone knows how to operated a Russian armored assault vehicle.

 

 

As I recall there are three parameters:

• Unlock Enemy Cars
• Unlock Enemy Armor
• Unlock Enemy Aircraft

Do these not work?

 

 

That wouldnt be too bad...would be hard to wreck the AO in a vodnik. Is it possible to use a driver list like for the air vehicles so at least a bunch of idiots wouldnt be using them?

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

As far as I've been told, they were all lumped in the same class. I could be wrong, though. That being said, I've seen just as much damage from a enemy grenade launcher as I have from an enemy tank, but that's just part of the game.

[GooniversalSoldier~SPARTA~]

As far as I've been told, they were all lumped in the same class. I could be wrong, though. That being said, I've seen just as much damage from a enemy grenade launcher as I have from an enemy tank, but that's just part of the game.

 

 

At least they wouldn't be able to take out armor too easily. Really, it doesnt hurt game play when we cant use them...its not like in real life you would be taking vehicles.

[KalXen~SPARTA~]

The 3 seperate parameters exist; cars, armor, and aircraft. You may be confused when I said that once the vehicle is locked, nobody can get in it, EAST or WEST.

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

The 3 seperate parameters exist; cars, armor, and aircraft. You may be confused when I said that once the vehicle is locked, nobody can get in it, EAST or WEST.

 

Thanks for clearing that up