Batwing~SPARTA~ Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Ok, i have to say 2012 started with the "Curse of the HardDrive", and the story continues...... RECAP After I installed my SSD, my "storage" 1TB Western Digital failed and was seriously corrupted, not even able to reformat. WD sent me a newr model in replacement, a 1.5TB this time, Caviar black 64mb cache. It should be a good drive. PRESENT TIME Reistalled again, slowly putting stuff on and testing behavior. This morning the new 1.5TB reported a massive list of messed files when it started performing a Chkdsk at start up. I am starting evaluating is possibly not the drive to be at fault but something else is causing the corruptions. I want brainstorming with you guys to see if we can see possible reasons. if anyone has experience in weird "paranormal" computer events. I want to consider a couple of things: 1 - When i installed the OS, i moved the Temp folders from the SSD to the HDD supposing to improve performances and save valuable room on the small 128GB SSD. ---> I am evaluating the possibility that the temp files the OS needs to cache and read while performing standard opeerations may have a problem whe are running on drives performing different "speeds". I am just supposing the SSD is obviously faster than the HDD, so i may have 2 possible issues: ---a) possible bottleneck in data read and write due to the HDD slowness --- possible data corruption because operations are required faster than HDD can perform? that sounds weird, but i would not exclude. I noticed there were weird behavior in OS performances when i moved the Temp files to the HDD. IE was sometimes crashing (temp internet files were on HDD) and there were some stalling sometimes in other operations. I moved back the temp internet folder to the SSD and now it seems IE is faster and stable. Trying to reading the very fast action Chkdsk performs, I had a feeling that a few of corrupted or orphanized files were located on the temp folder. I actually moved back the OS temp folders to the original location on the SSD. I will evaluate performances and stability. 2 - Is it possible the SATA controller on the motherboard is failing? If that is the case, the controller might be sending corrupted data or simply not being able to correctly read data. I am not too keen to this, because it seems a grey area and usually in electronic, there is no grey, either it works or doesnt (1 or 0). I didn t try to swap the HDD drive SATA Port to another one. And i was thinking, if it was the controller, why should be always D: drive failing? SSD is on the same controller it could fail as well, but it doesnt... So, this is the scenario... if anyone wanna play "Detective' and give some input on possibilities, I am all ears. However I would like also to hear from ppl using SSDs and Storages, if they moved the temp folders from the C: location to the Storage location, if they had any issue with that. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MH6~SPARTA~ Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 No such issues here, sorry to hear it's giving you such a hard time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skaz~SPARTA~ Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I got an ssd and a hdd on my laptop, no issues what so ever. one question batwing, why would you want to move temp files to a different location? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skaz~SPARTA~ Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 and a more important question, why are you still using ie? chrome is lighter, more secure and more stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donziboy2 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Keep your temp/pagefile on the SSD, having to load from HDD instead of SSD is so much slower and that is why its stalling. Have you considered the SATA cable could be bad? Have you tried running the manufacturer hard drive test to make sure its good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batwing~SPARTA~ Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) @ Skaz: Originally the reason why i was moving all of the temp files to the "storage" was just to not have that Temp space "wasted" on a 128GB smaller SSD. However I didn t foresee the possiblity was going to be a pain. Now i also do consider that the reading / writing to the Storage temp would decrease performances, so the temp are back on the SSD. i will monitor performances and behavior to see if this fix all of the issues. @ Donzy: I didn t consider the SATA cable at fault. I can change it just to be safe, I have plenty of spares. About the WD disk tools, i have them, i didn t use them yet on this drive. However, I used it on the old one and that tool was reporting all green and the drive was not even able to Format.. so I am not trusting that tool too much. @ MH6 Did you move your temp folders to the Storage or you left them on the original location on the SSD ? Edited January 17, 2012 by Batwing~SPARTA~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MH6~SPARTA~ Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I moved the entire Users folder, so anything in C:\Users is on a Velociraptor HDD. Everything else remains on the SSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batwing~SPARTA~ Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Ok, so understanding those temp folders are on a hi-perf hdd, is possible timing read/write are not affected. Is your driver a 10000 RPM? What size is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MH6~SPARTA~ Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yes it's a 10000RPM 300GB WD Velociraptor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batwing~SPARTA~ Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 yeah, i think larger and Slower disks may have a problem interacting with the OS on SSD requesting the temp files at a faster rate. My 1.5TB 7200RPM is for sure wayyyy slower than a smaller drive with fast RPMs. However, it may be the solution or it may be not.. I will monitor its behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel~Sparta~ Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 it is POSSIBLE the SATA controller is failing but I find that to be unlikely. Consider this possiblity instead... The SSD operates at a much higher speed than the HDD in theory however in practice the speed is limited for both devices by the maximum speed of the SATA controller. Neither device can recieve data faster than the controller passes it along. So I see 2 possiblities. 1. Buffer Overrun. The SSD is sending information faster than the controller can process. The exess information is lost. Simular issues were seen back in the days of cd/r drives where the data was being sent faster than it could be recieved. 2. SATA controller setting is FASTER than what is compatible with your HDD. This also would create a buffer overrun condition and the data is lost. Recommendation manually set sata controller speed to a lower setting. Set SSD and HDD speeds to match if possible. Report changes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batwing~SPARTA~ Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 I don t think there is a chance the SATA controller speed need to be adjusted. This is an old MB and has only SATA 2 (not the newer 3) which is fully compatible to any possible decent HDD out there. I will keep the option in the "brainstorming draw" anyway tho. I will actually monitor in the next few days the behavior having all at the original location. Now the SSD does its job and the Storage does its job, they should live happily ever after Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donziboy2 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Your running win 7 right? The drives will only go as fast as the other end will let them, so SSD talking to HDD will only be as fast as the HDD. Have you rescanned the drive to see if there is any new errors? Have you checked the HDD Smart for any clues? Programs like Speedfan allow you to look at the SMART data for the drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batwing~SPARTA~ Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 Yeah, Used the WD tool to have a full SMART report. It is green and passed full test. However i do not trust it too much. It was giving me green SMART also on the previous drive i had to RMA. I m rescanning with chkdsk /f /r right now. It is taking forever and will see at the end. It found a few Orphanized files.... We ll see when it ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batwing~SPARTA~ Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 OK, and the result is... RMA AGAIN!!! This drive lasted 4 days.... Boot Sector gone and MFT gone. Does not format anymore. All data lost again, God bless the backup software i ran just the day before. Besides the massive pain in the ass to go thru an RMA again and having my PC still unusable, at least this time I had no data loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MH6~SPARTA~ Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Got another computer to try the drive in? May be something else going on here. Monitor your PC temps (if the HDD is above ~45C you have a problem) Was this new drive on the same port as the old drive? Edited January 18, 2012 by MH6~SPARTA~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luggage~SPARTA~ Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I have SSD + standard 7200rpm HDD SSD holds OS and certain games HDD holds everything else AND temp/pagefile and some redirected folders I am dubious about this being anything other than a failing SATA connection/broken SATA controller/General IO issue on the MB which is a fault, rather than an inherent outcome of your deployment of your files. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batwing~SPARTA~ Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 Well, 2 drives in just few days one from the other, of course i have doubts about the SATA controller as well.... On the other side the Murphy Law is something very real, so it is possible 2 drives were failing. I will try the drive with another PC, however if the Boot sector is gone and the MFT is gone as well, (as i had as response using TestDisk tool) i don t know if this would be fixed connecting to another PC. however i have nothing to lose, so i will try that for sure.... If it goes true... hmmm this is gonna be a major replacement then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter~SPARTA~ Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 You said what psu you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batwing~SPARTA~ Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) I have a 750W can t recall the brand right now. thinking again about the SATA controller issue, reason why i do not believe is the controller is because is the same controller handling the SSD. If the controller is at fault, why sometimes doesn t report mismatches to the SSD as well? Actually the issues are on HDD only, connected on port 1, with the same cable. I can connect to a different port and I can change the cable but ... for some reason I don t feel is the culprit. I also have a spare old drive in a draw... is an old 20GB ))))) however it works flawless. I could connect it and use it just to test if my MB is gonna fry it too If it get fried within 4 days, then with NO DOUBT the fucking MB is gone.. @ LUGGS What s the size of you HDD? EDIT: nevermind, i just realized that old HDD is an old IDE, i don t even have the ribbon to connect it and it would be using a different controller, so no sense.... Edited January 18, 2012 by Batwing~SPARTA~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel~Sparta~ Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I have a 750W can t recall the brand right now. thinking again about the SATA controller issue, reason why i do not believe is the controller is because is the same controller handling the SSD. If the controller is at fault, why sometimes doesn t report mismatches to the SSD as well? Actually the issues are on HDD only, connected on port 1, with the same cable. I can connect to a different port and I can change the cable but ... for some reason I don t feel is the culprit. I also have a spare old drive in a draw... is an old 20GB ))))) however it works flawless. I could connect it and use it just to test if my MB is gonna fry it too If it get fried within 4 days, then with NO DOUBT the fucking MB is gone.. @ LUGGS What s the size of you HDD? EDIT: nevermind, i just realized that old HDD is an old IDE, i don t even have the ribbon to connect it and it would be using a different controller, so no sense.... this is a sound idea... Find a cheap and known good sata hdd and use it to test. As you said if it fails in a few days then you have the answer. Other wise you have really bad luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batwing~SPARTA~ Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 I know my man.. but actually the word "cheap" and "SATA HDD" are not living together... there is no way to find a cheap drive and if you have a drive, you don t wanna blow it.. That test is not gonna happen... on the other side, ina a week i will have the new replacement.. and here we go... test is gonna happen anyway.. If I fry 3 HDDs in a row.. MB has some issues indeed.. and I am not even sure if WD is gonna send me another replacement either.. However, seriously.. how the controller can be messed up if the SSD is working flawlessy since day 1.. not even a minor hiccup? To try to be safe i will use a new cable and i ll switch to another port (therefore i will never know if the cable and port 1 are damaged, but I am not gonna risk it..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luggage~SPARTA~ Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I have a 750W can t recall the brand right now. thinking again about the SATA controller issue, reason why i do not believe is the controller is because is the same controller handling the SSD. If the controller is at fault, why sometimes doesn t report mismatches to the SSD as well? Actually the issues are on HDD only, connected on port 1, with the same cable. I can connect to a different port and I can change the cable but ... for some reason I don t feel is the culprit. I also have a spare old drive in a draw... is an old 20GB ))))) however it works flawless. I could connect it and use it just to test if my MB is gonna fry it too If it get fried within 4 days, then with NO DOUBT the fucking MB is gone.. @ LUGGS What s the size of you HDD? EDIT: nevermind, i just realized that old HDD is an old IDE, i don t even have the ribbon to connect it and it would be using a different controller, so no sense.... SSD 120 HDD 1TB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batwing~SPARTA~ Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Just got the 3rd replacement and I am restoring my data.... Count down started to see how long this drive lasts However, I took some precautions: Updated Chipset driver to better SATA controller Changed SATA Port Changed SATA cable and now, crossing fingers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlon64~SPARTA~ Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Well it could be you got a bulk product the first time around. There used to be what they called in the industry, a first tier or second tier mfger. Big difference between the two. First tier used all high quality componets Second tier used substandard componets, like maybe cheaper motors or intgrated circuits. Edited January 22, 2012 by Athlon64~SPARTA~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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