Zeno~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I would like to see more air assaults on objectives but doing them as we play now would be a disaster. Therefore I would like to train for it. I need 20 people, there will be 4 Littlebird pilots and 16 infantry. The pilots would have to insert the infantry on the same spot with five second intervals. To clarify T + 0 seconds Alpha Chopper Will approach at speed and land on LZ , Alpha Squad will disembark and form a perimeter, Alpha Chopper will immediately depart. T + 5 seconds Bravo Chopper Will approach at speed and land on same LZ , Bravo Squad will disembark and reinforce the perimeter, Bravo Chopper will immediately depart. T + 10 seconds Charlie Chopper Will approach at speed and land on same LZ , Charlie Squad will disembark and reinforce the perimeter, Charlie Chopper will immediately depart. T + 15 seconds Delta Chopper Will approach at speed and land on same LZ , Delta Squad will disembark and reinforce the perimeter, Delta Chopper will immediately depart. Timing is critical, any delayed departure of a chopper will result in a collision(s) since the incoming choppers are aiming to hit a spot at a given time, but if this works we could put a 16 man force in position in a hot zone in under 20 seconds. Like I said as things stand now this will not work (and may never work here), but I would like us to try. So we need to practice and we will use ACE Littlebirds (because the ACE version is fast and the Littlebird is, well, little) in Fallujah flying down the boulevards using the buildings as cover. I am sure there will be 20 people saying they are great pilots that can perform this feat, but there are 2 criteria, the pilots have to be people that regularly play and they have to actually be capable of flying low and fast and hitting a mark and at a fixed time. This is all about the infantry and getting a meaningful force into position quickly so the infantry have to train as well, securing the the perimeter is vital to the safety of the later choppers as the enemy will surely converge on the LZ, which will probably be a crossroads. The loadouts will be critical, with specialisation is mind. We need to figure out the best mix of gear for each squad. During practice there will be no enemies. If the required level is attained, the world renowned Fatal_Papercut will film a few practice runs and put together a great clip, the blooper reel should be fun too (actually a lot of us will film it but FP will be the dedicated cameraman). In order to make this clearer I will try to put together a scenario using AI and film it. If we learn to do this AO assaults will never be the same again, anyone up for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchman~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Absolutely. I can't fly for toffee but I make damn good cannon fodder, count me in!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewman~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Oh yes, I'd like to volunteer to be in the first chopper as a grunt, as I would like to watch Bravo chopper land on Alpha and Charlie take evasive action into the mosque whilst Delta pulls up hard into the AA...........leaving the brave four grunts from Alpha to find their own way home, - think Black Hawk Down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I like to try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adder360~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 notes to self in reading this - get back to the uk -upgrade computer -buy and update armor -prastic this sorta shizz -join in the highjix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster90 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I don't mind being a grunt. Just let me know the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBE Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 (edited) EBE will be number 19 . (And if you want me to land the harrier in the middle of the ao to pick you up zeno Will DO .... ) Edited April 28, 2011 by EBE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I'm definitely up for this. However, I'm not so sure about the plan. It would look pretty cool, granted. But I see it ending tragically. Correct me if I'm wrong, but even in the movies (specifically thinking Black Hawk Down), the birds did not come in one at a time. They all landed within seconds of each other, dropping their troops, and taking back off again, again pretty much at the same time. This method not only puts more boots on the ground in a shorter time frame, but it also doesn't leave that last chopper as vulnerable. Especially taking into consideration how the AI react in Arma, that last chopper is almost certainly doomed if there is a full 15-20 seconds by the time the AI is alerted to the time its trying to depart. All vehicles, emplaced weapons, and machine guns will be tearing that poor guy apart. But thats just my two cents. - JHunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaiSan Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Count me in as an Infantry Squad Leader or Landing Co-Ordinator if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeno~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 Good Points J. I am thinking specifically of Fallujah, and hoping to use the buildings as cover for insertion and departure with the hope of owning an intersection. Using the blackhawk down principal we would try to own a block covering 4 intersections. Thats fine by me, I still would like to train for the intersection, because it is harder and much more rewarding if achieved. I have an AI sample mission but they are a bit slow on the drop off so I have to allow a large interval between choppers (30 seconds) to avoid collisions. I will create 2 more versions, one with playable troops and one with Pilots only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Let me know when. I will fly like an eagle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batwing~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I am TOTALLY in for this !! I can fly pretty well but I would offer myself as Pilot "second choice" simply because i would enjoy better be on the ground with my friendly Metis providing cover. About how the insertion flight may work, here is my suggestion: 1 - Taking off together and flying close formation till a "separation" navpoint 2 - Separation navpoint means a way to safely slow down and allows Alpha to separate and reach LZ deplaying first cover troops; Bravo, Charly and Delta in standby 3 - Alpha squad confirms LZ secured, Bravo, Charly and Delta proceed together for a fast landing and departure. Otherwise, plan #2, Using 1 Little Bird and 1 BlackHawk, fastroping insertion 1 - Taking off together and flying close formation till a "separation" navpoint 2 - Separation navpoint means a way to safely slow down and allows Alpha to separate and reach LZ deplaying first cover troops; BlackHawk in standby, troops prepare fastroping procedures 3 - Alpha squad confirms LZ secured, BlackHawk proceed for the fastroping delivery Plan #2 may optimize delivery using a smaller LZ (no need for 3 choppers to land), may optimize transportation (1 chopper vs 3, less possibilities of shut down), fastroping with 4 ropes can be extremely cool to watch !!! (a less seriouos comment ) Whatever the action will be I AM IN, let me know timeframe for training ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I am TOTALLY in for this !! I can fly pretty well but I would offer myself as Pilot "second choice" simply because i would enjoy better be on the ground with my friendly Metis providing cover. About how the insertion flight may work, here is my suggestion: 1 - Taking off together and flying close formation till a "separation" navpoint 2 - Separation navpoint means a way to safely slow down and allows Alpha to separate and reach LZ deplaying first cover troops; Bravo, Charly and Delta in standby 3 - Alpha squad confirms LZ secured, Bravo, Charly and Delta proceed together for a fast landing and departure. Otherwise, plan #2, Using 1 Little Bird and 1 BlackHawk, fastroping insertion 1 - Taking off together and flying close formation till a "separation" navpoint 2 - Separation navpoint means a way to safely slow down and allows Alpha to separate and reach LZ deplaying first cover troops; BlackHawk in standby, troops prepare fastroping procedures 3 - Alpha squad confirms LZ secured, BlackHawk proceed for the fastroping delivery Plan #2 may optimize delivery using a smaller LZ (no need for 3 choppers to land), may optimize transportation (1 chopper vs 3, less possibilities of shut down), fastroping with 4 ropes can be extremely cool to watch !!! (a less seriouos comment ) Whatever the action will be I AM IN, let me know timeframe for training ! I'm sorry, but why do we always do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durka-Durka~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 An excellent idea Zeno! One that I've wanted to do since Arma2 came out. Both suggestions by Zeno and J are good ones, and it can be done in both ways. I would suggest, just for pilot familirazation, that it be done Zeno's way first, and then work to do the 4 on-point Air Assault, or 4-in-line. Those guys in Blackhawk down were professionals, and it takes years of practice to perform something like that, just saying. I like Batwings points as well, and things would have to be coordinated in advance with the pilots in order for the infantry guys to have any fun. One thing that I would change is the helicopter. The Littlebirds are smaller and cooler, but they are also very easy to shoot down by small arms. Two Blackhawks are a little more sturdy and can take a hit. I there are real future missions in the works, I suggest taking out any mounted machine guns and leave it infantry-to-infantry action, since it's so easy to shoot down choppers in-game. Either that or insert farther out. Who knows, with regular practice, the guys here could become the Sparta Air Assault Division Mosul, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchman~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I actually prefer the idea of littlebirds as their size should mean (pilots willing) they can get down to near street level for the approach. This hopefully will also give them some protection from incoming fire. Dibs on a seat on Alpha helo with a Mk 48 mod 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 (edited) Well you can count me in for it as one of the crazy pilots to help out with it, unless you get four other pilots then I'm fine watching from the benches. (Since I'm a bullet magnet in or out of vehicles.). Just would have to know the times you'd want me to be around. The fun part of this will be watching the training for trying to get it to happen exactly as needed. Edited April 28, 2011 by Frenchie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeno~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 The fact is 16 infantry can fit in one Blackhawk (I think) plus the littlebird can fly down at street level with more margin for error. If we had 40 people the blackhawks would be awesome. I have already choreographed the operation and plan to practice it on the desert map first just to see if pilots can hit a mark quickly in one attempt. More to follow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durka-Durka~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 The fact is 16 infantry can fit in one Blackhawk (I think) plus the littlebird can fly down at street level with more margin for error. If we had 40 people the blackhawks would be awesome. I have already choreographed the operation and plan to practice it on the desert map first just to see if pilots can hit a mark quickly in one attempt. More to follow Sounds good. If they can get down to street level and hide between buildings, that will be good cover. I can fly pretty well and fight, so I'd love to be a part of this if possible, depending on schedules and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeno~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 The key is for the chopper to fly low and fast then snap its speed off, quickly disembark and take off, again this is the strength of the littlebird because its light. Now I cannot do this but will develop this idea with guys that can. I will fly with the hopefuls in a series of check out flights. If you think you can do what I need I will give you a chance. The other step in this "dance" is the perimeter I want the perimeter to be just as well rehearsed as the insertion with people armed wit the right weapons facing the right way. i want to see MGs, ATs and grenadiers and only one marksman. Unfortunately this has to be ACE, since the Littlebird is too slow in the standard version. Also my test mission only works in the editor the AI drops are erratic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durka-Durka~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Maybe you should have a trainer for two different teams. One for the pilots and one for the infantry. I've found that the best way in Arma to come in to an LZ at full speed and stop on a dime without gaining altitude is to do a 180deg rotation. It has advantages in that you are going from 180 to 0, and you are also set into a position to take off in the opposite direction. It's unrealistic, but it's fast and works with the game. Only problem is that you can't really do it in a straight street, unless you are flying just above the rooftops. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AsgZSCv4zI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeno~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 LOL, Durka I know your technique, I practice it myself in the blackhawk - emphasis on practice. The littlebird may be able to cut its speed with a 45degree left right snap, if there is enough room but I will check this out. We will train infantry and air separately at first so that the infantry can focus on their task with worrying about the pilot embedding them in a tree. The infantry training will not focus on the tight timing just the proper disbursement. We will see if we can get the requisite numbers for this project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 (edited) Thats not best way for practice landing in urban environment. At some point chopper either will not loose enough speed to land and you overshoot or stall dropping some alt. If you are unlucky stall will be deadly. I think with little bird slowing down is not a issue, you just have to remember its not UFO and will not freeze in a second Im sure we all saw starwars and death star attack. This should be same kind of flying otherwise we are too exposed for enemy fire. Even that not give you guarantee you will survive Edited April 28, 2011 by peter~SPARTA~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custard~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Sounds awesome, even just practice, I would love to take part. If we are a pilot short I will volunteer but I'm a little short of competent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeno~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 Thats why we will practice until we perfect the technique. I am looking for a straight in straight out solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee~SPARTA~ Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Zeno, Is it possible to load the Fallujah map with no enemies so I/we can practice flying between buildings and landing first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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