Fallujah Domination.

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

The idea is not to push people away. like I said I can restore the MHQ, I wll sort it out shortly.

 

Helpful feedback, thanks.

[MedicSN6]

In a nut shell, we've taken a mission style (Domination) which was designed for open map warfare and very small, open towns and crammed it into a very large city. Some things will not work the same as they did on the other maps.

 

Re-spawning is paramount. Hajimoto had two great points. One, we don't re-spawn nearly as much as on other maps as revives are constantly being used. Two, not being able to teleport to the MHQ is hell for those who join mid mission.

 

I' like to add that ArmA2 as a piece of software is nowhere near perfect. If an issue arises where a player is bugged or can't be revived, it has always been nice to not have to start from the very beginning after a re-spawn.

 

Having a lift chopper is useful if you want to insert an MHQ from the North side of the map. Driving there wastes an awful lot of time, but admittedly, it isn't too bad.

 

Things I would like to see:

 

*The ability to fast-rope in to an area via BH or LittleBirds. This would be a sweet addition to the Fallujah map.

 

*Instead of the MHQ having teleport abilities, having a device such as the Strobe beacon or some other device (or ability for the SL, much like a MG nest for gunners or the MASH for the medics), which can be established anywhere on the map.

Caveats:

1. On the main squad leader can perform this ability.

2. 25 or 30 min cool down till it can be recovered. (Makes players think long and hard before dropping it.)

3. Might make the Squad Leader slot more attractive.

4. Can still be destroyed by enemy. (Acts as a mounted vehicle at all times.)

4. If destroyed by the enemy, SL needs to RTB and pick up a new kit.

 

Just some thoughts and ideas.

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

OK the MHQs are back

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

Respawning is enabled but teleporting is not, is this ok. Also its set to pilots only can fly (set by smokey) do you want this changed as well.

 

Andrewman tells me the Nlaw rockets are missing

[Yankee~SPARTA~]

We've been playing the same damn domination style play for 2 years now. Having to drive, navigate, and avoid roadblocks on the way to meet up with teammates is fresh and new.

[GooniversalSoldier~SPARTA~]

Zeno, leave the teleporting out, i like having to drive around the city (or fly). Builds teamwork

 

 

Correct me if i am wrong, but you can fast rope in ACE so you should be able to do fast roping in ACE faldom without a problem. (to Adress medic's concerns)

[Hajimoto]

Zeno - I think the ability to teleport to the MHQ is something that should be enabled. Again for the reasons that I mentioned earlier regarding the people that join after the mission is started or the bloke that has the bad ISP who gets disconnected.

I was not clear and merged the two things together (spawn and teleport) in my previous post. I do not think anyone would have a serious issue with no teleport to base, which I believe is a admin switchable attribute prior tomap launch. If there is an asset back at base that was not brought, it should not be a cross your arms and genie teleport resolve. I would like to givean example that supports my position.

All of us have been on missions where the objective requires satchels, all to often we find ourselves at theobjective and no satchel. How we resolve it is either hump it back to the MHQ or find a D30 position and acquire the necessary satchels, the game would lose all its interest if I could pull out a device that allowed me to teleport to get the item. I have said this before, "Preparation Equals Success".

 

Yankee sums it up prettywell though; the logistics of joining up with your team mates should be the option of the player. If a player wishes to take a vehicle and navigate the city to get there, you have that option, but if your real life does not afford you a lot of gaming time, one should have the optionto "time compress" and teleport to the MHQ.

 

This is supposed to befun and enjoyable and it is impossible to make everyone happy but consistency becomes familiarity and the frustrations of adapting to a constantly changingSOP can be exhausting for some.

 

I enjoy tactical play, I think everyone that has ever played alongside me knows that, but TAC-DOM isTAC-DOM and I think Fall-DOM on the ACE server should be a fair balance so as not to push away the players that are not interested in tactical style play orless fortunate when it comes to their amount of free game time.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2011 by Hajimoto

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

This is a balancing act guys, please be patient with each other and me and I hope we will find a reasonable compromise.

 

I will say this, the changes made to Fallujah were meant to uniquely for that map simply because I thought it would play well. Regardless of my intentions it wont play well if the server is empty.

[Rolf]

Although i'm of the opinion that i'd rather see less use of the MHQ as a means of revival, teleportation and ammo dump, it does provide a player who has limited playing time to get into the fight quickly and that's got to be a good thing.I'd suggest that we keep the MHQ as it is because it also standardises things a little across the maps.

 

When we are in-game, if most people are in favour we can always agree upon not using the MHQ and instead play more tactically and realistically instead - it'll just require self discipline from the players choosing to play this way.

 

If we remove the MHQ then we remove an option; if we keep the MHQ we're not limiting our options.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Rolf

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

The next iteration will return all settings to standard except there will be no fixed wings.

[EL_n00biachi]

Its very dissapointing to see a so called groundpounding crew on a server where more tactical teamplaybased gameplay is expected is so against this idea after just one evening.

It only takes max 2minutes to drive with an SUV back to the group IF there is no one to revive you.....if no one is able to revive you that means you're a lonewolf or a run n gunner....it makes no sense to give assets to people who base their play 100% on the MHQ\teleport\respawn "feature".

I had already anticipated those players to be against this with zeal.

 

Fallujah demands you to play as a team, to slow down,to depend on your teammates,to prepare in advance..the MHQ\teleport nonsense TOTALLY destroys this and reduces it to a mix of BF2 and Crysis.

[Jeff~SPARTA~]

peter, in regards to your comment about "too enthusiastic" people on TS: its not an effort to "temper" people. its an honest attempt to make a more hardcore-type teamwork map. with that being said, i also agree with noobiachi's comment about it supporting "run-n-gunners." to be honest, SPARTA's premise was that everyone was here for the teamwork, and more tactical gameplay.

 

with that being said, maybe its time to start cracking down on the run-n-gun guys. if they really are doing that, explain the rules. if they can't get it, bring out the banhammer. i honestly think some of the issues that are being talked about could be solved simply by enforcing the rules.

 

in regards to the MHQ...maybe try and limit respawns/teleports to one every 30 minutes or so. that way it doesn't screw over the guy with a crappy ISP (or a computer like mine,) but doesn't cater to the run-n-gun community either.

 

Jeff

[Gunthar~SPARTA~]

Looks like a party so I guess I will toss in my two cents on this.

 

There is a time and a place for running around carpet bombing things and using spawns such as MHQ's in domination (i.e. on maps the size of char or lingor where driving to the AO takes forever.) Then there are times which should force people to utilize tactics and teamwork. There is apparently a misunderstanding of these terms among our normal player base so I will explain what these mean to me.

 

Tactics: Get together as a group move into an area and kill things in a smart planned manner.

Fun Tactics: Run in with a group of friends and just screw around in order to have fun and get your Arma on.

Teamwork: Work together as a team to ensure that you stick together and capture areas in a manner where if you die you can be revived by your teammates.

Fun Teamwork: Park an MHQ within 100m of the AO and just lay waste while not having to worry about dieing all the time.

 

TACDOM: Using strict tactics with a set leader that follows orders and does everything in a military style adhering to strict guidelines to TACDOM rules.

 

Now those FUN things should be used on the public server which is designed to bring in people to play with us and have fun if not having ACE is an issue there I am more than confident that Zeno will not object to putting it on there.

 

The Tactics and Teamwork I spoke of are for our password servers, these are meant to do what Sparta does best; work together and accomplish goals with adherence to the rules and common courtesy.

 

TACDOM is there for those missions and maps where you want a clear cut methodology such as running Lightspeed's mission.

 

As for this MHQ business, ACE is meant to be hard its meant to force you to work together as a team and meant to punish you for not doing that if you load up on the password ACE server you should follow those rules and work in the spirit of the intent of the server which is to give a more intense teamwork orientated experience for those who play on it. If you do not want to adhere to this just go play on the public server that is why it is there. Calling the removal of an MHQ damaging to the playing experience is just way out of proportion since Fall-DOM is not that big and it takes all of 1 to 2 min to get back to the fight if you have to re-spawn.

 

Just so my thoughts were clearly stated the Password protected ACE server is not there for run and gun it is there to work together as a team it is not TACDOM it is just a more restricted server with certain rules that must be followed and if you don't want to or feel as if they are not in keeping with your play style by all means go play on the public server.

 

 

Gunthar

[MedicSN6]

Its very dissapointing to see a so called groundpounding crew on a server where more tactical teamplaybased gameplay is expected is so against this idea after just one evening.

It only takes max 2minutes to drive with an SUV back to the group IF there is no one to revive you.....if no one is able to revive you that means you're a lonewolf or a run n gunner....it makes no sense to give assets to people who base their play 100% on the MHQ\teleport\respawn "feature".

I had already anticipated those players to be against this with zeal.

 

Fallujah demands you to play as a team, to slow down,to depend on your teammates,to prepare in advance..the MHQ\teleport nonsense TOTALLY destroys this and reduces it to a mix of BF2 and Crysis.

 

I think you are being a bit extreme with your analysis, if anyone would even call it that. While this is your opinion, and we are happy to listen to anyone and everyone's opinions and/or suggestions, keep in mind, as Zeno said above, that this is a balancing act.

 

Honestly, I would have preferred to see the teleport to the MHQ remain and the respawn at MHQ removed, which is the opposite of what Zeno initially did and I see his logic in doing so. It is now, or soon will be, back to normal DOM MHQ mode.

 

What I do not like to see on any server for any game, is any function, where players are punished for playing how they like. What difference does it make if there is a lonewolf in the AO? What difference does it make if they are in different comms or even just in a different channel? The difference is that those who choose to operate as an element have no obligation to help or converse with that lonewolf unless they want to. If you want to be off by yourself, you MUST expect "friendly" fire, no revives, the main group not going out of their way to help you, no camaraderie on TS, etc. Those are the consequences. Not being able to respawn near the AO or teleport to the MHQ is far too much a punishment. The ends do not justify the means.

 

Removing key features of the map/mission does by no means make the map or gameplay better. No one forced you to use the MHQ in the first place. By all means, load up a HumV with some sparse kit and drive to the AO if it pleases you. It would help for everyone to agree on this as a group.

 

As far as I am concerned, one, comms are mandatory to play on the server, we know this and all of our regulars know this. Two, the server is passworded. If the lonewolf thing gets out of hand, please tell a Mod or Admin and we are more than happy to talk to that individual/s. Finally, if need be, the password can be changed.

 

You guys can play as realistic as you want, but you have to decide as a group of whoever is on and go from there. If Hajimoto and I decide to lay waste to Fallujah without the MHQ then a bunch more come into the server, be respectful and at least ask those who were there first if they mind you setting it up. If we say, no, then be courteous and join the fight without it. When the next AO or side mission is ready, the players present can, collectively, decide what to do for that.

 

The servers have always operated on respect. If someone isn't following the rules or code, then it needs to be addressed by a mod or admin.

[GooniversalSoldier~SPARTA~]

Personally, if you want to be real hardcore i would recommend Shacktac.

[Jeff~SPARTA~]

Medic, those lonewolfs have a bad habit of ruining the main groups' intended plan. there was a night, a while back, where a single impatient player decided to parajump into the AO early, because he didn't want to wait for the rest of us to plan out our parajump assault, load up on the osprey, and parajump in. said lonewolf alerted the AO, making our 12-man stealth jump all for naught.

 

also, it was my understanding, six months ago, when i first discovered Sparta, that the passworded servers were for a higher level of play, where being in TS is mandatory, and teamwork is a must. it seems this policy has been reversed of late though.

 

Jeff

Edited March 25, 2011 by jealco

[EL_n00biachi]

I think you are being a bit extreme with your analysis, if anyone would even call it that.

 

It is based on 8 months of play....i think i've played with you 2 days ago for the first time and im a daily player on the server.

My analysis is based on my experience on the server,there is no need to disqualify it, as there are alot of people who agree that the ACE server has fallen down to the level of a pub server.

 

The questions and answers you give are a description of the pub server....or so i thought.

 

 

I was in the understanding that there was a difference between the servers but i see there is none,i apologize for my behaviour in defense of Fallujah ACE Tactical Domination if i have offended anyone....all i ask is for people who use gamey tactics to be fair towards me as to not force me to get personal and call out names.

[MedicSN6]

It is based on 8 months of play....i think i've played with you 2 days ago for the first time and im a daily player on the server.

My analysis is based on my experience on the server,there is no need to disqualify it, as there are alot of people who agree that the ACE server has fallen down to the level of a pub server.

 

The questions and answers you give are a description of the pub server....or so i thought.

 

 

I was in the understanding that there was a difference between the servers but i see there is none,i apologize for my behaviour in defense of Fallujah ACE Tactical Domination if i have offended anyone....all i ask is for people who use gamey tactics to be fair towards me as to not force me to get personal and call out names.

 

No offense taken at all Noob. But, please read the rest of my post. I have no problem calling someone on their lack of teamwork and if they choose to ignore any warning from a Mod or Admin, then they get kicked. If this is what is needed then it is what should take place. Mods just need your help in finding all of these players who fail to understand our rules.

 

True, there are differences between the pub server and the "tac dom" servers. But, each still needs to be moderated. It isn't like the password is a tight secret. Anyone who comes on the server ends up with the password if they want to play with the majority of players who are in teamspeak.

 

If the only difference you see in the two servers is the password, then maybe we should take the password off and make it easier for players to join it, comms or no comms. If the issue is that one or two players are ruining the game for others, then maybe those 'other' players should tell an admin, so we can fix the problem. Sure, we may not be able to reset an AO because someone alerted the enemy, but we can get rid of the player and try to prevent it from happening again. If the players who follow the rules don't tell us who is shitting up the game, then expect a shitty game.

 

That being said, coming on the forums and complaining about how the game has apparently declined in tactical realism without listing the names of players who induce the decline, is like Not voting for the President and then complaining that he raised taxes. However, if you PM'd the mods or admins with a name or contacted us on TS with a name and incident, we can take action. Until those proactive steps occur, or we see these incidents personally, there is nothing we can do.

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

OK apparently this has become a venting post for pent up frustrations

 

This is domination so the MHQ is back. You have the option not to use it and convoy around the AOs in Fallujah (my preference).

 

The level of play on the ACE passworded server is meant to be elevated though not "realistic" it remains a game here.

 

All players on passworded servers need to be on TS, it is mandatory.

 

Play is meant to be squad based and coordinated and to be fair this is what I see when I play.

 

If specific players are regularly disrupting play, please let me know who they are in a private message. I know most of the players on the ACE server and they know me, so a friendly word in private can straighten out most "misunderstandings".

 

An observation, when the numbers are low the level of play is high, when the numbers are high the level of play lowers. To some extent this inverse relationship is logical, but not obligatory.