Cheap Handguns for Home Protection

[Yankee~SPARTA~]

I shot pheasant with a .410 as a kid and I can't tell you how many times I was left with only feathers. If you truly want to feel good about what you have, a 20 gauge at least will be recommended. But I promise in the heat of the moment you will have 20/20 vision and will hear the ants crawling across the carpet. The sound of the gun discharging will be the last on the list for what your brain will be processing in that moment.

 

Some things to consider because Durka brings up some great points on this topic.

 

Always always always call 911 if you can. Try and clearly explain your situation to the dispatcher. Convey that you have a weapon and will use it if threatened to any extent (its your right!). Your family comes first, but there will be a lawsuit; guaranteed.

 

Clearly and concisely announce that you have a weapon and will use it to your intruder. 9/10 times they will run off. However, many laws require some sort of warning. Unless of course there is no opportunity. Remember, people always end in court when defending their home and family. Whatever you do, don't shoot someone in the back trying to run away.

 

Most likely if someone is going to break into your house, it will be while you're gone. Believe it or not robbers are smart and know people own guns.

 

Durka, I'd try not to let it grow to paranoia. Make sure to leave your gun unloaded but available. Nothing like having your door kicked down and trying to unlock a safe (do you think you could hit the 3 numbers on a dial with someone breaking in?).

 

I hope this helps. Let us know what you end up doing.

 

Edit:

 

I almost forgot to say, as a professional in health safety field, any db spike around 120 can cause instantaneous hearing damage. A .22 LR fired inside will damage your hearing. Not shooting when you have to, or shooting sub-standard ammo could be even more injurious.

Edited January 6, 2011 by Yankee~SPARTA~

[OrcFace_McStompYou]

A couple of points:

 

1) Forget about trying to avoid blowing through the walls of your house. Anything that has the power to stop an attacker will also punch through modern interior and some exterior walls with ease.

 

2) Shotguns are great HD tools, but they may not be the best for you. They deliver a very impressive payload on the target, but relying on the spread is a good way to end up in court or worse. You are legally responsible for every pellet that comes out of that guns, and it will go through walls (see above). IF you go with a shotgun, you owe it to yourself, your family and your neighbors to find a brand of ammo that patterns TIGHTLY. Federal 00 Buck with the Flight-Control wad is well known for this, but other work too. Measure the longest straight distance in your house and shoot the gun at that range. Fire one shot and measure the spread of the furthest two pellets. DO this several times. You want a pattern 4" or less. As for 12 vs 20, vs 410, go with whatever fit you well. Modern semi-auto's are very reliable, as are pumps. Pistol grips tend to be more manueverable and for someone with AR experience, more familiar. I wouldn't go with a pistol grip only though, you want a stock if you're going to have any kind of decent accuracy.

 

3) Make sure you train with whatever weapon you choose. Practice loading and malfuntion drills. Find an action shooting group if you can, IDPA, USPSA, 3-gun, whatever. Timed competition, even if it's casual and friendly, is a great way to test yourself and your gun-handling under stress.

 

4) Talking about it beforehand with your wife is a great idea. Generally, the best option is, you grab the your kid and all of you hole up in one room, she's on the cell phone with 911, you're covering the door with your gun. Sit tight and don't try to clear your house. Insurance will cover anything they take, there's no reason to put yourself and your family at risk trying to save the TV. As I'm sure all of you with military experinece are aware, the defender has a huge advantage in situations like this. Don't give that advantage away. I've read the study that Yankee mentioned and some of the case-law. It's true that you can't sue the cops for not showing up soon enough. I wouldn't assume that that means they will ignore you completely, if you call and tell them that someone is in your house, they will get there, eventually. Your job is just to protect yourself and your family until they do.

[Yankee~SPARTA~]

Whenever I think of Durka, I will now think of Jurassic park:

 

 

 

Just before he gets attacked by a raptor

Muldoon: Clever girl.

Edited January 6, 2011 by Yankee~SPARTA~

[MedicSN6]

Nice points, jokes and debates from everyone. I guess it is my turn to weigh in with my $0.02.

 

I would suggest that you find a firearm be it a pistol, shotgun, or small caliber rifle (.22LR, .223, etc.) that fits you. I know I don't have to tell you this but let it serve as a reminder for everyone: KNOW THE GUN LAWS. Having a very good understanding of what you are allowed to do and when WILL be the difference between 'just a trip downtown to sort things out' and 'Mr. So-and-So, you are being charged with the following..."

 

That being said, my personal thought on it is that it is better for the bad guy to be dead and my family alive with me in jail than it is me and my family dead and the bad guy is out victimizing more people. It is a situation I have though long and hard about. You should too.

 

A shotgun is a great defensive tool. I alternate 00 buck with slugs. First, to have options without reloading. Second, the perp might think the two different sounds are multiple people and realize he/she is out-numbered. Find a choke that is designed for home defense and practice with it. Shotgun shelss are some of the cheapest ammo right now. This situation is very good. You can teach the wife how to shoot it very well and won't break the bank doing it. Here's a very good article on selecting a proper home defense shot gun: http://jth8260.tripod.com/shotgun.html Its information very much apply s to other firearms as well.

 

You can get a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500 for a little over $300 brand new. The Rem 870 would be an all-around good choice and it's perfect for laying at the top of the steps and baiting your intruder in.

 

As far as rifles go, any high power rifle is really out. But if you have an AR-15 style system, consider a .22LR conversion kit. It gives you the .22LR round in a familiar platform that any Military guy should be very comfortable using an/or teaching. The accessories for this platform are crazy, so you can mount what you like. The .22LR in a semi-auto system gives you over 20 rounds in the magazine. It is also the middle range projectile as far as lethality. Just keep in mind, that you are not shooting to kill or shooting to wound. You are shooting to stop the threat that is advancing on you.

 

Handguns are the most versatile weapon you can go to in a home defense situation. Most in-home incidents involve a handgun either of the criminal or the homeowner. For this I would suggest you get a capable round such as the .357 Sig or the .40 S&W. Both of these in defensive rounds (JHP Hydrashocks, CCI 'Gold Dot', etc.) will serve you well.

 

 

The one thing that people really don't think about when it comes to home defense is lighting. They get up and immediately turn on lights. Bad idea. The dark is you friend and gives you an advantage. If you flip the wall switch you have given the enemy the same advantage. If you carry a bright as you can afford flashlight to shine into the badguy's eyes, then you have stunned him giving you a critical moment to stop the threat.

The main thing you need to remember is to have the flashlight either mounted to the weapon or have it next to the weapon in storage. Keep the gun locked up but relatively close and loaded. This might conflict with some general safety rules, but you have to consider that time is life and every second you take to prepare a weapon is seconds that the bad guy is closing in on you or your family.

 

Enough about guns though.

 

Taking some steps around your house to increase safety is paramount. Pre-planning prevents piss-poor performance as we used to say in the Army. Look around the outside of your house and install motion sensitive lighting where needed. This is a deterrent all by itself. Make sure your windows and doors are locked at all times (including that basement window that never works correctly. Get it fixed.)

Have an escape plan for fires and make it include home invasion as well. This includes your wife calling the 911 and securing the children while you defend your bedroom area. If you hear shit banging around downstairs or down the hall in the living room and you realize that someone is actually in the house, for fucks sake don't leave them and go search the house. Stay put and defend your family. Your family is dead if you go out and get surprised by a couple of guys. They will not want witnesses. So stay with your family. This also aids your legal defense if and when you have to pull the trigger. You have narrowed their path of travel to a natural choke point (the hall way) and now possibly have a clean shot to take with hopefully your family behind you.

You should think about all of this over and over. What if they break in through Side one, 2nd floor, window one? Who's room is that? Can I hear what goes on in that room at night? How long does it take me to unlock the safe, get the weapon, travel to the room? What do I do when I get their and she is being held hostage? These are all questions you should ask yourself and role-play through with your wife. Try not to scare the bejeezus out of the kids.

 

The more unattractive your house is to a thief or home invader, the better off you are.

 

You need to orient yourself. Know which direction your neighbors live in and what a bullet might have to travel through. It if is bricks, you are better off than just some siding and dry-wall.

 

And last but not least practice all of this. The firearms, your plans, your escape routes, meeting places if you get separated, everything.

 

It is better to be prepared and not need it, than need it and not know what to do.

 

Hope this helps. And to anyone who thinks I am just being paranoid, I will say that you have never had to respond as EMS to a home invasion where the mom, dad and two kids were killed over a TV, dvds, and some jewelry. Fuck all criminals that want to hurt me and mine.

[Halli~SPARTA~]

Dave get a cheap shotgun and saw the barrel off...Who cares if it is legal they will never see it unless you are attacked and Belive me the law(enforcement) will be on your side.

 

In the states robbers look for the American flag flying outside of a home as they know that person will more than likely have guns, now this when no one is home but ya never know

as for the Stars and Bars hell man ya should be flying it anyway(haha).

Ask for extra patrols in your area and tell them why.

 

 

[OrcFace_McStompYou]

On a lighter note, you need one of these:

 

 

14+1 round capacity in a short 12 gauge. WANT.

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Lots of good stuff from all.

 

Yankee: Not close to paranoid here, but it's just one of those basic things the head of a household has to think about and prepare for at least once. Murphy always has his way to those who aren't prepared, but I'm not at the point where I'm setting booby traps up in the house lol.

 

Orc: Great advice. My home is a 1-story rancher with a narrow hallway connecting the living room to the back bedrooms. We have to cross the hallway to get into my daughter's room, but it's directly next door and not that far, although depending on the situation it could feel like a mile away. My only neighbor is in the line of fire, if I were aiming down the hallway toward the living room, but luckily I have a garage beyond the room to help stop some of the shot. My original thoughts were to have the wife call 911 and take my kid out the window to the neighbors while I dealt with the threat, but listening to some of you I'm thinking that may end up very badly.

 

Medic: Great stuff. From what I can judge lately, around here the laws are pretty lax when it comes to home invasions. In the past 2yrs there have been a LOT of guys shot for breaking in and many who didn't even make it inside the house. One I remember clearly is a kid was home alone and somebody broke in. His grandfather ran over from next door and the thief tried to get away. The grandfather shot him in the back of the head with a 357 as he was half way to the street running away. Not a single charge was filed.

 

Pre-planning is always the #1 rule with me. I was telling my wife this earlier, explaining about once in Iraq we had a shell hit our camp about 35yrds away, but all 3 squads knew where to go immediately since we had worked out rallying points beforehand. Everyone was accounted for within minutes. It's experiences like that that remind me that, even though it sometimes sounds paranoid to the average person, just a quick action plan could save a life.

[Halli~SPARTA~]

Yep with your back-ground You should feel safe just get something and more than likely you will never use it for home use.

 

 

Shhhhhh I think we are scareing the Brits!

[MedicSN6]

Shhhhhh I think we are scareing the Brits!

 

Yeah, I thought about that too Halli.

[EBE]

Treu old story

 

A dady is watching his daughter come home in the evening ,In the back yard she is putting her bike away .

 

Then he sees somebody jump the fence .(clearly self-defense private property.. )

 

He gets his gun out (old rifle )and shoots . HIT.

 

Couple minutes later ... he realizes the daughter had a boyfriend the dady didn't know about .

 

 

 

..check your fire is the key fraze here ..

[Forrester~SPARTA~]

If I read all this the US must be a very unsafe place to live.... just migrate to europe, alot safer, better healthcare (we are far ahead on obama's healthplan payeable for everyone).....lol

Dont want to start a flaming discussion, but if you know how many kids die by dads handgun...... dont buy one, and make sure the next governement bans them from legal use.....

handguns are around in the Netherlands, but they are most used by criminals on criminals, and I don't mind too much about that.... very very seldom someone gets robbed in home, simply because very few people own a gun....

[Watchman~SPARTA~]

Yeah, I thought about that too Halli.

 

I doubt it would scare most of us, as the same issues exist here but we Just rely on a baseball bat or similar.

Gun crime in the UK is still mostly on the streets, I don't recall a single case of a home invasion when the perp was carrying. Having said that, had we not already implemented our dumb-ass gun laws, I would at the very least already be the happy owner of a shottie and a handgun.

Edited January 7, 2011 by BPR_Watchman

[MedicSN6]

If I read all this the US must be a very unsafe place to live.... just migrate to europe, alot safer, better healthcare (we are far ahead on obama's healthplan payeable for everyone).....lol

Dont want to start a flaming discussion, but if you know how many kids die by dads handgun...... dont buy one, and make sure the next governement bans them from legal use.....

handguns are around in the Netherlands, but they are most used by criminals on criminals, and I don't mind too much about that.... very very seldom someone gets robbed in home, simply because very few people own a gun....

 

The thing is Forrester that more kids respectively die per year from Medical Malpractice or getting hit by a car on their tricycle or electrocuted or being in a motor vehicle crash. None of these things are vilified nearly as much as firearms. On top of this, the statistics for firearm related deaths in people under 18 (minors) include ALL gun related deaths. That is to say, accidental discharges be it self-inflicted or otherwise up to kids who are killed during gang violence and drug related incidents. Even with all these deaths, the fact is that firearms aren't even in the top ten causes of death. Then, we should take in to account the numbers of deaths versus the numbers of actual objects and create a ratio between them. Children versus the number of vehicles and children versus the number of guns. The results would be staggeringly positive.

 

I believe that with education, proper training and the practice of common sense safety, which is the sole responsibility of the parent to instill in their child, will prevent accidental firearm deaths. As far as the gang related deaths, these are at a core fundamentally behavioral issues which could be traced to home and school life, geographic location and level of wealth.

 

All that being said, we will never be able to prevent all deaths of every single type, but through prevention and education we can mitigate the majority of them.

 

My apologies for not providing sources. I am supposed to be getting ready for work while typing this and don't have the time to properly reference the information but I promise this is based on real research I have done for numerous collegiate papers I have written.

 

Anothe rpoint I'd make is that if the firearms were the actual problem and it isn't the people who pull the trigger, then why aren't the tens of thousands of police officers, federal agents, U.S. Marshals, military personnel, and everyone else who are generally law abiding citizens going around and shooting random people for no reason? If it were an epidemic where a firearm could magically overwhelm a person's moral code and make them start shooting people with out rhyme or reason, then I'd say sure, lets get rid of the guns. We need to eradicate this problem. But, the opposite is true. There are more defensive uses of firearms every single day than there are offensive.

 

My final thought is that ANY death of a child is an absolute tragedy and should be taken in to regard. Trying to ban an overwhelmingly positive tool (firearms) because people either misuse them or accidentally shoot themselves or someone else is not an appropriate corrective action. We have not done this for motor modern medicine, motor vehicles, cigarettes, alcohol, cars, abusive parents, etc. Why should we do this for a fundamental tool which helps to ensure the safety of millions more than those who are harmed by it?

 

I respect an enjoy your commentary.

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

A very important overlooked thing is first checking the self protection laws for your state!!!! Florida used to have a screwed up law of haveing to prove the use of deadly force to shoot and kill a intruder wile protecting yourself and family. The law has been changed now to the, if they broke into your home you can shoot! Check your law first. Get what ever gun you want. I have a monitored alarm system,I use that as early warning. It goes off and gun in hand. If there in the house POW! Perioud! Scum of the earth now takeing the dirt nap. Florida is glade to loan you some gatiors to tie up on a leash out front.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Athlon64~SPARTA~

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

If I read all this the US must be a very unsafe place to live....

 

Our economy is tanking, and that is naturally producing more crime. Granted, it's not in all parts of the US (it's a BIG collection of countries) so some areas are going to be better/worse than others. Either way, crime has been rising as of late. The pretty nice and quiet neighborhood my parents live in had an incident where druggies broke into a handicapped man's home and almost shot him looking for drugs. I just discovered 2 neighbors are on the wrong end of the law in my own neighborhood. A cop was killed within a mile radius here about 2yrs ago. I don't live in a trashy place, and it's decidedly middle-class. I'm perfectly comfortable with a knife in hand when it comes to defending myself, but my family is a totally different matter. It's totally possible to become a "gun nut" here, but I like most, just want peace of mind.

 

Anothe rpoint I'd make is that if the firearms were the actual problem and it isn't the people who pull the trigger, then why aren't the tens of thousands of police officers, federal agents, U.S. Marshals, military personnel, and everyone else who are generally law abiding citizens going around and shooting random people for no reason? If it were an epidemic where a firearm could magically overwhelm a person's moral code and make them start shooting people with out rhyme or reason, then I'd say sure, lets get rid of the guns. We need to eradicate this problem. But, the opposite is true. There are more defensive uses of firearms every single day than there are offensive.

 

I'll speak a little from experience. My grandfather was helping a man pick up some dropped items at a grocery store. He was killed when a revolver fell out of the other man's shirt pocket. According to those who fear firearms, I have as much justification to want to ban them as anyone, but I realize they're valuable tools when used in the right hands. Any accidental shooting is a tragedy, I'm just thankful folks are more educated on how to store firearms.

[Forrester~SPARTA~]

Well said both. I have to say that in my opinion as a European living in one of the safest countries in the world guns should be banned.

From my point of view..... Here when a cop stops someone 1 times in maybe a 100 does he pull out his gun. And I know that media gets things thrugh more exitingly, but If I watch any program about US cops even on discovery channel I hardly see a cop without his holster opened and gun ready to fire. Why? Because many people own a gun.

I do believe that per 1000 inhabitants the US has the most cops and people in Jail of the whole world. Off course thats not only due to guns, but also due to the bigger difference between rich and poor. Social guardnets are much better over here, we pay a lot more on taxes (45% of salary and I don't get that much) but for that of someone loses a job, or gets disabled he can still live a quite normal life. Even though over here there are people dependant on food distribution. But thats more due to the inabillity to keep the household book clean of depts....

If someone enters your house unwanted here:

-1 you call 911 (112),

-2 get out of the way just try to watch the burglar and see you get a good description,

-3 if he uses violence or threatens you may use force (pushing, punching etc.) up to a certain level (to scare off, not to kill/cause very serious injury)

You would say that is a death penalty, but because violence is off limits most burglars come in unarmed too. The only problem we have are hit and run burglars that are addicted to drugs. I guess one policeman per 10 years gets killed over here, and say 3-4 people that get arrested get shot every year (most survive as the police only shoots legs and lower torso) for 16 million people. Try to multiply that by US inhabitants and look at the US statistics and see why i would be against guns.....

Unsafety in the Netherlands is mostly traffic (many people small country) and in home accidents had a boy die last silvester due to illegal fireworks set lit by his dad....

[Yankee~SPARTA~]

Statistics

 

 

[MedicSN6]

I can see your argument Forrester.

 

Another point I'd like to make is that the states in the U.S. that have the lowest violent crime rates are the ones with the fewest anti-gun laws/restrictions. When criminals know they have a chance of being wounded or killed by their intended victim, they think twice.

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

I agree, at least we are medium in the chart. One city In airzona has 0 crime becouse its leagle to carry firearms all the time.

[OrcFace_McStompYou]

Medic brings up some very good points. Swimming pools are significantly more likely to cause the death of a child than guns. The vast majority of accidental gun deaths among children are due to a lack of knowledge or just plain mis-information portrayed by entertainment venues. Every responsible parent and gun owner owes it to their children to teach them about safe-handling practices, just like parents are responsible for teaching safe driving habits. If I had my way basic gun-handling would be taught in elementary school and I'd bet good money that accidental deaths would drop dramatically.

 

Forrester, if you'd like to read more about this there's a free online book at http://www.gunfacts.info/ that shows how skewed a lot of the 'statistics' are. For example, most studies blaming guns for high deaths among children define a child as anoyone under the age of 24, and the vast majority of these detahs are in gang-related warfare, which as you said, doesn't bother us much.

 

I'd also like to point out that what you watch on TV is in no way an accurate representation of actual fire-arm useage in the US. Of course the cop TV shows show them with guns drawn because it makes it more interesting. TV is for entertainment and nothing else. I have several friends who are cops, some are highway patrol, one is a sheriff's deputy. Between them all they have over 10 years of experience (my friends are young), several thousand stops and arrests and only one has ever pulled his gun (the deputy) and only one time.

[Steel~Sparta~]

I lived in a small town in kansas where a neighbor got up one night and noticed that lights were on in his shed... funny thing is that he did not have any lights installed there. So he called 911 as he go his gun. He informed the dispatcher of the breakin and to send the cops. The dispatcher responded that the cops were to busy (it was going to take the cops 15 minutes to respond) and that who ever it was would probibly go away soon (not the exact wording but that is what it comes down too). He "thanked" the dispatcher and hung up, waited 2 minutes and then called back and told the dispatcher to tell the cops to take their time as he had killed the intruders. The cops got there in 2 minutes and caught the theives. Then they asked my neighbor " we thought you said that you killed them" and he responded "I thought you said it would take 15 minutes to get here.)

 

They tried to charge him (my neighbor) with a crime but it never went anywhere... seems that no one in town blamed him and the cops there are a bunch of douche nozzles

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

Sorry its the american way, you know John wayne and apple pie. After all the bla-bla-bla go to the gun show i put up on a link for you and get one.

 

Manufacturing

Make: Hi-Point

Country: USA

MSRP: $179

 

Ballistics

Caliber: .40 SW, .45 ACP

Capacity: 9 rounds

 

Dimensions

Type: Full Size

Weight: 32 oz (907g)

Length: 7.75" (197 mm)

Barrel: 4.50" (114 mm)

 

Design

Frame/Finishes:

High Impact Polymer

Grips/Stock:

Integrated

Safety:

Quick on & off thumb safety

Sights:

3-dot, adjustable rear sight (Windage and Elevation, mount for lazer sight

Made in the USA.

Did you check your local self protection law? Do that first so you know that you have to put a knife in their hand after shooting them.

I like that keltec shotgun holds 14 rounds

Edited January 19, 2011 by Athlon64~SPARTA~

[MedicSN6]

Sorry its the american way, you know John wayne and apple pie. After all the bla-bla-bla go to the gun show i put up on a link for you and get one.

 

Manufacturing

Make: Hi-Point

Country: USA

MSRP: $179

 

Ballistics

Caliber: .40 SW, .45 ACP

Capacity: 9 rounds

 

Dimensions

Type: Full Size

Weight: 32 oz (907g)

Length: 7.75" (197 mm)

Barrel: 4.50" (114 mm)

 

Design

Frame/Finishes:

High Impact Polymer

Grips/Stock:

Integrated

Safety:

Quick on & off thumb safety

Sights:

3-dot, adjustable rear sight (Windage and Elevation, mount for lazer sight

Made in the USA.

Did you check your local self protection law? Do that first so you know that you have to put a knife in their hand after shooting them.

I like that keltec shotgun holds 14 rounds

 

I will politely disagree with Athlon on the Hi-point brand. These things are for plinking and that's it. I have shot a few of these and have never been impressed. Multiple malfunctions, FTFs, Stovepipes, etc. These things are NOT defensive weapons. They are cheap which the price denotes.

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

I haven't fired one of those, If it doesen't say colt or springfeild or kimber or amt or desert eagle I won't own it. But my friend bought one and said it shoots good. NO jams on his. The use of quality ammo is highly recomended, no hp or russian ammo in it.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Athlon64~SPARTA~

[EMT~SPARTA~]

Springfield xdm. Great gun.

Or

Remington 870. Got one next to my desk. Handgun is next to the bed. I live in an apartment on the second floor with one entrance. If someone is in my house, I'm automatically pinned and cornered. So I'll be blasting away. I have no kids, so I'm never more than a step away from a gun and my gf is a pro at shooting both of them.