OA domination CQBF server

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

I have edited domination to force people to get in close to the ao. CQBF (Close Quarters BluFor) is on the tacdom server using the ACE server password.

 

For now everyone spawns emptyhanded and has to load up at the box (I will change this to give everyone a basic assault rifle on spawn). Only the Alpha sniper spawns with an M110 NV scope.

 

The ammo box has no ranged scopes, basically red dots and iron sights (Allied weapons only).

 

This will force people to work out how to get close or even into the AO before engaging.

 

I also added SOV Humvees which have an mg and mk 19 to help you penetrate the town quickly.

 

If enough of you like this I will add another version changing the contents of the box to opfor weapons, although you will play blufor soldiers (this will be called CQOF)

 

Credit to cobrav22 for the idea

[MH6~SPARTA~]

Sounds awesome, good work

[Lightspeed~SPARTA~]

thats a gr8 idea mate - hopefully it will gain acceptance - love the cqb element and apparently UPSMAN (the random urban patrol script for those of you who dont know) in OA works well with opfor finding buildings and moving through and engaging better in urban setting now.

[evilducky]

Sweet! I cant wait to try this out.

[Batwing~SPARTA~]

I like the idea but I am alil bit scared.

 

If we keep a massive presence of infantri like happened so far, AI is not gonna give us a chance to survive in close combat.

 

AI always showed their superiority " seeing better" and engaging with "impressive" accuracy.

 

Actually TWS scopes and sniping gave us a chance to balance with the AI.

 

While I do agree limiting sniper presence, removing TWS scopes (they are effective up to 300 mtr anyway, then you need tocompensate alot), gives AI an edge.

We will have to engage at close, but AI engage us very succesfully at long range already and they are gonna eat us alive at close.

 

I m ready to try, but I would suggest to tweak AI a beat to be less effective to make the combat fair

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

Dont be scared, following improvement in AI skills TWS scope can be retained on the public server, The CQBF Domination will always be on a passworded server.

 

I am making more changes,

 

Charlie and Echo squads are undercover takistani armed with FN Fal's and ammo boxes will contain a variety of non scoped russian weapons, all other squads spawn with M16s, I have replaced an MH6 with a takistani UH1Y.

 

I have made the bravo sniper more of a designated markman with an RCO scoped m4. Still tweaking.

[DaiSan]

Good job mate, looks like I've found a new favourite server.

[Batwing~SPARTA~]

Well, Zeno

 

Your tweaking is really appealing :0

I want to be part of this anyway, I mean, it sounds like a sort of "role play" to give some sense to our operations and i really like the idea

 

When r we gonna test this ?

[cobrav222]

After playing it a bit, it seems that you need to plan by using those Humvee and land-cruisers as a group. You have to make sure to bring an ammo truck to make sure you can reload them. Remember like original arma II smoke and arty smoke to mask movements into the AO. It definitely challenges your skills both at shooting and moving but most importantly working together. I think once it is approved for tac-dom night the commander will be challenged with coming up with an effective plan, and the medics will be kept very busy. Thanks Zeno, it is an awesome setup....

[Batwing~SPARTA~]

Yes, AWESOME setup:)

 

My comments after a few hors on this are:

 

1 - Usage of Humvees is a must, need vehicles to try to get close to the town

 

2 - I d like to have ACOGS, AI is able to hit and kill one shot using their ironsights at 300+ meters, we can't. A bit of optics, without becoming sniper rifles would help to balance a lil bit

 

3 - Maybe a bit of less armors on the OPFOR side would make this "close combat' a bit more feasable. They should have off roads, but minimal heavy armor or tanks. Otherwise we should make it fair using tanks as well to assault the city, but then is no more "infantry close combat".

 

4 - I found myself engaging a rifle man close to radio tower at 300 mtrs, I fired 3 or 4 shots to take him down and in literally 3 seconds i was annihilated by a D30 surgical strike. This is not too fair.

 

5 - A machine gunner mounted on a UAZ killed with 1 shot Hajimoto at 350 mtrs, trying a flanking move. I barely saw the guy, but he didn t have that problem seeing us. That machine gun had a sniper accuracy, this does not help the "realism" we want to give to this kind of mission

 

6 - I used a humvee TOW to try to engage a far away Tank. I was covered byy the crest of a hill, the tank was looking at opposite direction. As soon as i put my nose out of the crest to be able to get a visual with my TOW, tank shot at me with 1 shot - 1 kill result, dooming my Humvee and myself. How am I supposed to have a bit of "surprise" toward this kind of AI ?

 

THOUGHTS:

 

This is a great idea to spice up the game. It could also resemble a "Ghost Recon" action or simulate an Afganistan Town clearence, however it requires a lot of planning from Squad leaders and each one on the field to stay alive. If a "surprise plan" get spoiled so easily from AI, that means we spend 1 hour to get close to the target, to die like flies within 5 minutes from the first shot fired. A lot of frustration....

 

If we can tweak some AI behaviour and most importantly their accuracy to match what we can do, this is gonna be great, otherwise.. i m not so sure

Edited July 11, 2010 by Batwing

[custard~SPARTA~]

Practice Batwing, last night I was engaging targets at 400M + with an FN keep firing supresses them and 2 mags I killed all three targets. It's not what we are used to but it's possible

[Batwing~SPARTA~]

I am not saying that hitting at or above 300 is not possible. I am just saying that one thing is keeping you target down with fire suppression and another one is being obliterated by a D30 after less than 5 seconds you opened fire.

 

I am just saying, one thing is barely being able to see a target without optics around 300 mtrs and on thing is having someone putting a bullet in your forehead with naked eyes at the same distance, using a "machine gun".

 

These are things at least to take in cnsideration

 

I do engage at 300 or more, but to me it takes a few shots to calibrate the right hit (considering also server lagging and target warping) while AI kills with extreme accuracy the most of the time.

 

From a scenario standpoint, it looks like Tazakistan or Afgani insurgents got a way better training as sharpshoooters with AK 47 than professional western military troops.

 

However, you can also take that in consideration while planning your attack. You consider your enemy is way better than you. So you plan your moves and it takes long time to achieve something. Nonetheless, after all of this preparation, getting sniped as soon you put your nose out may result a bit frustrating

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

I will reduce the enemy skill and also reduce their accuracy and spotting time, should have something available for testing tomorrow,

 

I love scoped weapons but for this mission we must do without, We need to get to buildings asap and then move covering eachother.

 

I think there will be a lot of smoke, grenades and MG covering fire.

[Batwing~SPARTA~]

Thx Zeno for your support

 

About the enemy skills, i heard that reducing their skills make them mostly 'stupid' which woould not solve our problem.

 

We do want them able to find routes through buildings and act decently.

 

Accuracy is the key. If is possible to reduce accuracy without changinging them in silly zombies, that would be great

 

I am totally fine without scopes if the AI drops a bit of accuracy. That will make the fight fair. You know, if they also have to adjust 3 or 4 shots at long range before kill, at least give us some time to react and look for cover ... like they do when we miss our shots.

[custard~SPARTA~]

Please don't get me wrong Batwing I did not mean to critise, I just think it's something we have not tried before and we need to work out solutions.

 

For example with the scoped weapons I have favoured aproaching from high ground at distance with this setup I'm thinking we need to look at map much more closely find a way into the ao via a gully maybe? It will mean going in as a proper team covering all the angles until we have some buildings for hard cover and engage from close range.

 

I disagree a bit with Zeno's last point, I think we need very close accurate supressing fire. If we don't pin the bastards down we will die by degrees.

[Batwing~SPARTA~]

Yes Custard, i do agree with you. it is a new way to approach and I love it because we will really need to act as a close team.

 

But still being a game, with its perks and flaws, we need to suit the "engine' to our needs a bit.

 

Arma2 never been a close combat game, like other games in this kind. Arma has always been more oriented to large scale, large distances action.

Otherwise you play Arma in PvP mode, were necessarely you end up fighting also at shorter range, in Coop we fight an AI, programmed as default for large scale distant engagement.

 

When i was playing on GRAW2 we had similar issues with the AI, they were mercyless

 

As opposite side, AI in games as BF BC2 is very spectacular, per animation and the way the react within buildings and so forth, but they can be killed and they can let you live a bit longer.

true, BF BC2 or CoD are far away from being Sims, but wouldn t be great getting that balance coming from a mix of the 2 worlds ?

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Batwing, to a mounted machine gun like the UAZ, a 300m kill is comparable to a 75-100m kill from regular small arms. Those things are accurate out to 1000m. That may be why they're so lethal.

 

Cus, moving through a draw, or "gully" is fine if there's absolutely no chance of enemy being on the hills. Otherwise, it's a death trap. A preferred method is to stay high on a ridgeline, just below the crest on one side. That way you have the advantage of high ground and can retreat over the hill if you need to.

 

Zeno, this may not be possible, but it might be cool if the next AO were to be announced say, 5min before it came up. That way, we could have a head start to get dropped into a position, then work the AO from the inside, rather than entering from the outside. I dunno, might be interesting. Food for thought.

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Arma2 never been a close combat game, like other games in this kind. Arma has always been more oriented to large scale, large distances action.

Otherwise you play Arma in PvP mode, were necessarely you end up fighting also at shorter range, in Coop we fight an AI, programmed as default for large scale distant engagement.

 

I agree. A proper close-quarters engagement on this game where no scopes are present would put the enemy between 50-250m.

[custard~SPARTA~]

Damn Durka let the bastards skyline themselves at least when you are in a gully they can't see you, you have dirt between you and most of the objective? If you are on high ground ai can ping you from zero to what 1K?

 

This is from a game perspective I have no clue what would happen in the real world.

[Hajimoto]

I love the fact that there are attempts being made to offer a different scenario than the long distance crowd that the TWS equipment that Operation Arrowhead has fostered. I also applaud the collaboration of community to help mold the CQB style of game play into something challenging. That being said let?s be clear, most of us are not run and gunners and the reason we play Arma2/Arma2 OA is because of the realism and the challenge. If we wanted easy, predictable targets, we would play Rainbow Six Rogue Spear again which in its own way had some pretty amazing one shot one kill AI at times.

 

Today I put in about two hours with Batwing today to test out the new server and I enjoy tactical squad based FPS just as much as the next guy but in order for this to work we need to diminish the AI?s ability to not only spot and drop you at 350 meters with one shot but we need to address the enemies ability to track you through hill, buildings and other hardcover as if they had x-ray vision. I have been shot and killed behind a wall of smoke; the shots actually track my movements while I am obscured by the smoke screen or other vegetation!

I honestly love the challenge to outsmart my opponent and try to figure out another way to take him out, but when he can shoot primitive weapons with iron sights with surgical precision at 350 meters while I am on the move and behind vegetation with the help of a good solider like Batwing covering me, certainly can be deflating :0)

 

A less accurate, non x-ray enemy would be great! I think the game?s LOS routines need to have the routines tweaked a bit to factor distance, time of day, sun position, target velocity and heading in order to simulate the same results we (humans) would have with those variables. If we run a fair distance we are fighting against the breathing motion and our results are 6-10 rounds to score a critical hit on a 350 meter target, not one shot one kill after a sprint.

 

I am not turned off by the events of today by any means and the proposed changes that are going to be implemented in the near future do nothing but bait me in for more participation. I realize that this writing can be interpreted as criticism of the host but I would like to clear that up straight away, my comments are simply observation that I have experienced in the company of friends against a common enemy; i.e., FPS Video Game :0)

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Damn Durka let the bastards skyline themselves at least when you are in a gully they can't see you, you have dirt between you and most of the objective? If you are on high ground ai can ping you from zero to what 1K?

 

This is from a game perspective I have no clue what would happen in the real world.

 

 

I can only speak for realism sake, and can't really vouch for how well it's done in-game. All I know is that valleys, draws, gullys, and rivers have been kill boxes since war was invented because the enemy can concentrate his fire in a location without having to see you well while your movement is either restricted or non-existant. When you're near the top of a hill, you can retreat across the crest if you need to. If you're halfway down the hill, you're screwed. I'm not sure how it is in-game, but I'd guess about 1-3 people could make it through a gully without being seen. With the super-AI, I don't even know about that. *shrugs*

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

Domination uses a dispersion script, I have made changes to help eliminate the super soldier ability but to be honest I am guessing. I dont really understand the parameters so reduced them all, I presume you can create a random range of ability. If anyone is familiar with these parameters I would appreciate some input.

 

Here are the old settings

 

class CfgAISkill {

aimingAccuracy[] = {0, 0.16, 1, 0.22};

aimingShake[] = {0, 0.18, 1, 0.22};

aimingSpeed[] = {0, 1, 1, 1};

courage[] = {0, 1, 1, 1};

commanding[] = {0, 1, 1, 1};

endurance[] = {0, 1, 1, 1};

general[] = {0, 1, 1, 1};

reloadSpeed[] = {0, 1, 1, 1};

spotDistance[] = {0, 1, 1, 1};

spotTime[] = {0, 1, 1, 1};

};

 

and here are the new ones.

 

class CfgAISkill {

aimingAccuracy[] = {0, 0.16, .9, 0.22};

aimingShake[] = {0, 0.18, .9, 0.22};

aimingSpeed[] = {0, .8, .8, .8};

courage[] = {0, .8, .8, .8};

commanding[] = {0, .7, .7, .7};

endurance[] = {0, .7, .7, .7};

general[] = {0, .7, .7, .7};

reloadSpeed[] = {0, .7, .7, .7};

spotDistance[] = {0, .7, .7, .7};

spotTime[] = {0, .7, .7, .7};

 

As to the AO approaches, A couple of things to remember, there is one sniper who should scope out the AO first ( especailly finding the spotters). There is one designated marksman (with an RCO scope) he should be called on to take out specific targets that are causing problems I could introduce 1 DM per squad. We will need a lot of smoke and grenades, so I am learnig to use the m32 as a secondary. Squad composition will be more important If I carry sufficient grenades for the M32 I will not be able to carry AT, the same is true for the machine gunners, who should max out on mg rounds (12 mags). AT guys should have 6 maaws plus a stash in the vehicles. If we can get to the buildings we have a chance.

 

If this still doesnt work I can add another sniper and reequip the snipers with TWS scopes

 

Still needs tweaking.

 

@ Durka I dont know how to present the next AO ahead of time, although it may be possible to delay the setup of the AO which could have the same effect, but that is beyond my abilities.

[AlarmedBread]

This sounds awesome!

 

Guess I better get OA installed, it's been sitting here on my desk unopened since release day.

[Halli~SPARTA~]

This sounds awesome!

 

Guess I better get OA installed, it's been sitting here on my desk unopened since release day.

 

 

What even I have been Playing.....Get er' Done!

[evilducky]

Just one small thing and I don't know if this really makes a difference or not, but I know some games/programs might be picky on this. Would you have to put a 0 in front of numbers below 1? Like you have .9 or .7 for some values but should it be 0.9 or 0.7 or does it really not matter?