Putin boasts he has a better plane than the F22

[Elvis~SPARTA~]

http://rt.com/news/t50-pak-fa-maks/

 

On display at the Moscow air show yesterday.

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

Looks like a fancyed up mig 29. Does have thrust vectoring. Don't know about the radar signiture with those engine intakes sticking down under the wing.

[Elvis~SPARTA~]

http://quinetiam.com/?p=1051

 

And all of your planes become stealth planes when they are completely underground.

 

 

The Pentagon for the first time last week disclosed new details of China's deep underground bunker system that is used to protect nuclear weapons and Chinese military personnel and leaders.

 

The bunkers are located in northern China and are connected to a network of tunnels.

 

A disclosure in the annual assessment of China's military reveals its deep-underground facilities in the north that are connected with more than 3,000 miles of tunnels. The facilities are used for storing and hiding missiles and nuclear warheads, and for command bunkers hardened against nuclear attacks.The facilities were built beginning in the 1950s based on the Chinese belief that the weapons and headquarters are less vulnerable to attack.

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

http://rt.com/news/t50-pak-fa-maks/

 

On display at the Moscow air show yesterday.

 

lol you gotta love Russian Times. They say it's so top secret that those who work with it can't even talk about it on camera, then cut to Sergi saying how great it is to fly, what capabilities it has, and it's even safe flying "tail first!" If trends keep going, they won't have enough men to fly those things once they're all built.

 

And the Iraq says "Ha! You call THAT putting a plane underground!? THIS is how you bury a plane!"

 

[Steel~Sparta~]

 

 

And the Iraq says "Ha! You call THAT putting a plane underground!? THIS is how you bury a plane!"

 

 

 

Beauty contestant talking about The Iraq....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQdhMSEqhfg

Edited September 7, 2011 by Steel~Sparta~

[Roach]

Question I have is Who sold the ruskies the blue prints???????

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Question I have is Who sold the ruskies the blue prints???????

 

I dunno, but it was probably Clinton!

[EL_n00biachi]

Oh dont worry, military expenditure: USA 44%-56% The rest of the world combined.

[BrerRabbit~SPARTA~]

Wow ... some of the hyperbolic comments in this thread had me checking the date on the calender. For a second I thought it had to be the early 80s again what with all the "Red Dawn" hand wringing going on.

 

The Russians have a long tradition of overstating their capabilities (this goes all the way back to Tsarist Russia), and the West in turn has also had a tradition of overstating Mother Russia's capability to menace the West. This is not to say that Russia does not have very capable engineers and has and still can produce effective military systems ... but we need to distinguish press op propaganda from actual threats. Throughout the Cold War the Soviets would regularly display some great new weapons system (more often than not a copy of some Western tech.), the military/corporate apparatus in the West would in turn demand we meet this new "threat" with more spending and more development, only to find out a few years later that the Soviet system that had caused so much concern was never produced in any number, or never had the claimed capabilities.

 

In short, I think Buck Turgidson just about got it right, "the Russkie talks big, but frankly, we think he's short of know-how. I mean, you just can't expect a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys. And that's not meant as an insult, Mr. Ambassador, I mean, you, you take your average Russkie, we all know how much guts he's got."

 

Also, these advanced military programs, like 5th gen fighters, all have teething issues. The F-22 program has been scaled back (to something like 180 in total) for very good reasons and Im sure we will work out whatever problems there may be with the current fleet of planes. As for the Russian and Chinese capacity to address such inevitable teething problems in their 5th gen fighter programs there is good reason to be doubtful.

Edited September 8, 2011 by BrerRabbit~SPARTA~

[Elvis~SPARTA~]

Oh, I'm not worried about China. China has been the most powerful country on earth for most of the last thousand or two years. It invented gunpowder and didn't use it to take over the world, it built fireworks. It didn't build a great army, it built a great wall. There's over a billion of them, and they have greater capabilities than they let on. It will be see how they react to the rise of India in the next 40 years.

 

Russia is insecure and dysfunctional, but having been the primary adversary of the germans in wwII, and had their asses kicked all the way back to Moscow, Leningrad and Stalingrad, they're really not a big fan of war either. Their paranoia concerns me at times, especially after finding out they almost launched on us based on false radar readings, but I don't think they have designs on New York. They are amazingly resourceful and bright, control 1/6 of the world, and deserve some respect.

 

Its interesting to me that other people are spending lots of time and money to make things to kill one another, and that there is no reason to insist that in the lifetime of our children that the US will be the predominant military power on earth, when in the lifetime of our parents and grandparents the largest powers were Germany and France (at least on land, with apologies to the the Royal Navy, in a league all its own until...).

[Elvis~SPARTA~]

And now China has a second stealth aircraft in prototype, the F-60 (F-22 knockoff) :

 

http://freebeacon.com/beijings-raptor-knockoff/

 

Of course, nobody has been shot down by a prototype

 

[MH6~SPARTA~]

And now China has a second stealth aircraft in prototype, the F-60 (F-22 knockoff) :

 

http://freebeacon.co...aptor-knockoff/

 

Of course, nobody has been shot down by a prototype

 

 

Something about that picture screams "paper-mache" to me. Maybe it's the fact that they are letting a theoretically expensive aircraft wing get dangerously low to the ground. The entire thing looks like it's at an odd angle, why would they haul it like that.

[Elvis~SPARTA~]

 

Another look. No answers here.

[AJsarge]

It's been just a few months, but the F-22 is almost back to flying combat missions. Actually, they've been flying for the past while under limitations, and I see them landing all the time.

 

Now...F-35s replacing A-10s? I call BS. The A-10 fills a niche role in front-line CAS against armor and other ground targets that I feel can't be replicated without keeping the slow-speed maneuverability and pure ordinance capacity of the 'hog. I've heard talk about a new Light-CAS propeller-driven aircraft, and I could see that going amazingly with the SOF community and others.

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

Well as we all know missile technology is what determines air domance. We got it, it dosen't matter what the hell cool looking plane they build, they will be shot down eather buy them turning on their radar or heat signiture from over the horison upto 50 miles or better. fox one!

Or buy HARM, Stinger, Sidewinder, Copperhead AMRAM

Edited July 22, 2012 by Athlon64~SPARTA~

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

It's been just a few months, but the F-22 is almost back to flying combat missions. Actually, they've been flying for the past while under limitations, and I see them landing all the time.

 

Now...F-35s replacing A-10s? I call BS. The A-10 fills a niche role in front-line CAS against armor and other ground targets that I feel can't be replicated without keeping the slow-speed maneuverability and pure ordinance capacity of the 'hog. I've heard talk about a new Light-CAS propeller-driven aircraft, and I could see that going amazingly with the SOF community and others.

 

And let's not forget the loiter time. I don't know the F35's capabilities in this arena, but can't imagine it would be more than the A10.

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

why would they haul it like that.

 

Just a guess, but the angle would allow transportation through narrower openings

 

 

I know this is off topic, apologies, but below is a tale of A10 Survivability, but before that in the first gulf war Britain used Tornado multi role combat aircraft for ground attack, After losing a few, Britain returned to an older aircraft, the Hawker Siddley Buccaneer (first flight 1958), because it was a tougher airframe.

 

Onto a tale of the A10

 

Source http://www.cradleofa...craft/a-10.html

 

The Titanium Bathtub - or A-10 Survivability

 

"The following text was written in the mid-1970s by Joseph Arrighi for a Fairchild Republic presentation on the "Survivability Design Features Incorporated in the A-10A Close Air Support Weapon System." All images displayed were provided by Mr. Arrighi.

 

The A-10A airplane was designed from its inception to a complete set of survivability requirements. As a consequence it incorporates over 100 features which significantly reduce its vulnerability not only to weapons that have been responsible for so many combat losses in past conflicts but also to the more potent weapons expected to be encountered in possible future conflicts. These major reductions in vulnerability have been verified by many ballistic test firings against all critical areas of the airplane. The ballistic tests were conducted both during the competitive prototype phase of the A-X program, in which two prototype aircraft were designed and built, and during the development, test and evaluation of the production program.

 

The major reductions in vulnerability of the A-10A airplane provide the required "highly survivable" airplane which will "prevent its loss when operated in the anticipated threat environment"óthese quotes are from the A-10A system specification. Thus, one of the more essential qualities for providing an effective close air support weapon system is firmly established. Quantitatively, the A-10A airplane is as little as 1/10 as vulnerable as other operationally equivalent airplane types, depending on the threat encountered.

 

Below is a personal account by Col. Efferson of a flight in an A-10 in 1992.

 

I rolled in from 17,000 feet, shallow--30? dive, and bottomed out at about 9,000 feet. I rolled the wing up and looked down to try and pick up any kind of equipment at the intersection, but didnít see anything. I got the wings level, pulled hard in the vertical and then started a left jink. I was about 11,000 feet above the ground when I heard a big thunk and a huge jolt. And just then a missile goes tearing by and that scared the hell out of me. I started kicking out flares thinking I had been hit by a heat-seeking missile and that there were others coming at me. Later I realized that fragments from the hit I took caused one of my AIM-9s to cook off and when it fired, I thought it was a missile that had just missed me.

 

I then looked out at my right wing and it was just full of holes, with fluid oozing everywhere, and then a lot of master caution lights came on in the cockpit. I came into the cockpit and saw that the right hydraulic reservoir warning light and the right hydraulic pressure light were on. Also the pitch SAS and yaw SAS lights were on and some of the windscreen looked like a car windshield looks after it gets hit by a big rock. I looked back out at the right wing again, saw that I had wings level and was climbing, then came in and yelled Mayday over the radio.

 

I kept the airplane climbing and headed South, but I must have made those guys down there real mad at me because they must have seen the hit and here I was still flying. I got lots of RWR indications, like they knew they had a cripple and everybody in the world was locking onto me. I thought about trying to jettison the hung bombs and Mavericks but with all the fuel and stuff oozing out of the wing I didnít want to take the chance of them causing an explosion. Soon we contacted AWACS and they scrambled a tanker so they could support a SAR if I had to jump.

 

But the old airplane just kept right on cooking, and even though I lost the fuel in the right wing tank, I had enough left in the fuselage tank to make it back without tankering. I didnít move it any more than I had toóI did a lot of straight and level flying. As I got close in, I did a controllability check, isolated some systems and was able to get the gear down with the emergency system. I had no flaps or speed brakes but I came in, touched down nicely, but the left tire blew because it had been damaged. I used my emergency brakes but at about 150 knots I couldnít keep it on the runway. Fortunately, it was good, hard ground and the gear help while it skidded to a stop. I turned off the inverter and the battery, unstrapped, raised the canopy, jumped over the side and ran like hell.

 

The blown tire was smoking but the fire crews put that out. Then we started inspecting the airplane. Later, they counted 378 holes in it. According to the frag lodged in the plane, we deduced that all four shells from a four-round clip of 57mm hit me. Two exploded and hit just behind the planeóthat got the tail feathers and the right engine, which had forty-five holes in itóit wasnít developing full power but was still running when I landed. The third round exploded underneath the right wing, which sustained the major part of the damage and cooked off the AIM-9. The fourth round probably exploded right in front up by the nose.

 

If it hadn't been for the titanium bathtub, I probably wouldnít be here. The right side below the cockpit had seventeen major holes in it and the bathtub had a lot of chinks in it. Think of that; seventeen major holes just below the cockpit and I didnít get a scratch! It has to be a rugged airplane to sustain that kind of damage. And five days later they had patched it with speed tape, changed the right flaps, aileron and speed brakes, and flew it back to Fahd. Then, after some work, they got it in shape and we flew it home."

 

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

The A10 is triple reduntent. and the veritcal stabbs help hide the engine heat signiture, Well built machine. Titianum tub is tested buy shooting it point blank with a 23mm, if it panatrates then that tub is weak.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bMfrixJyWc

Edited July 22, 2012 by Athlon64~SPARTA~

[EL_n00biachi]

Well as we all know missile technology is what determines air domance. We got it, it dosen't matter what the hell cool looking plane they build, they will be shot down eather buy them turning on their radar or heat signiture from over the horison upto 50 miles or better. fox one!

Or buy HARM, Stinger, Sidewinder, Copperhead AMRAM

 

The problem is not so much China vs USA but China vs Japan,South Korea,The Philippines,India and Vietnam.....even with these rip offs as bad as they might be vs western jets...the Chinese can really start to project power.

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

Well as long as they don't go nukeular then let them bomb each outher out. But one does not want to mess with china. They have enough soldgers standing side buy side to cover and span across the smaller countrys like japan or vietnam. they could simpley just march across it and winn. Now India on the outher had has a very large population as well, No where as big as china. Ide like to see major conventional war held there, It would be interesting to see who winns. CHINA of corse Theres so many of them they could simpley trampel them out. Why do you think no one has ever tryed to defeat china in the past.

 

The japs kicked there butts for a little wile in 1930s mancheria, but they were fighting aganist farmers not trained military. I would like to see them try it now.

 

But it would not happen becouse the U.S. and USSR would join up and tell them to behave them selfs, they would listen then, or be enilated, and it would have to go nukeluar. And it would be lights out for the world.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Athlon64~SPARTA~

[EL_n00biachi]

Population is pretty much the same India has 1.2b and China 1.3

 

Why do you think no one has ever tryed to defeat china in the past.

Almost everyone has tried over the past 2000years,and many of times succeeded in beating them or breaking them into pieces.

India and China already fought a war,China vs Vietnam already happened and the Chinese got spanked.....

Dont give up on all of your Asian allies there mr Athlon,without Japan Taiwan South-korea The Philippines your economy means nothing.

 

A nice read on how they spy on us :C)

http://news.techworld.com/security/3360617/cambridge-researchers-uncover-backdoor-in-military-chip/

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

Well i diden't know this was going ecnomic. Ya, sence just about every dam thing over here is made in china now. Hard to find good quality american bearings that won't peel the crome off of them in a week of use now days. Well after all those wars china is still around, So i gess they diden't loose did they. As long as they don't bother the U.S. i don't give a crap what they do. And hopefully after this election ours will pick up again. That is if we don't keep on haveing to spend trillions being the worlds police force saveing their poor little butts from anilation from the bad guys and wasting all that money that won't be paid back.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Athlon64~SPARTA~

[AlarmedBread]

Judging by the camo that plane is a really low level stealth fighter!

 

There are a lot of USA made parts out there you just have to ask and pay for it or eventually there won't be any. Even at an auto parts store you can ask where the part is made and ask for one made somewhere else. It's similar to buying real food instead of cheap processed junk, people have to vote with their wallets.

[Elvis~SPARTA~]

More photos of the J-20. In the next year or so, interest payments on American debt held by China will fund the entire PLA budget.

 

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2012-05/02/c_131563172_2.htm

[Elvis~SPARTA~]

 

Now China is testing its second stealth fighter, probably able to be carrier based.

 

Of course, they stole the plans for both from the US, so we can take some credit. People in Taiwan can be really happy with our security.

 

http://chinesemil.blogspot.com/

 

http://english.chinamil.com.cn/