Putin boasts he has a better plane than the F22

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65G64820100617?type=politicsNews

 

"This machine will be superior to our main competitor, the F-22, in terms of maneuverability, weaponry and range," Putin told the pilot after the flight, according to an account on the government website.

 

According to the government website, the test pilot told Putin the controls of the T-50 allowed the pilot to operate most of the plane's systems without taking his hands off the joystick, which he said would be very useful under high forces of gravity.

 

"I know, I've flown," Putin replied. Sukhoi has said the plane should be ready for use in 2015.

 

lol what an arrogant SOB

 

[BigWorm~SPARTA~]

I thought they should of went with the SUKHOI Su-47 BERKUT Great looking fighter

 

[peter~SPARTA~]

What would you expect him to say when he is trying to sell new plane to others?

I bet its great plane far easier to maintain and fly then F22 with same or superior technologies used.

It's 20 years younger then F22 and Russians are great aircraft designers.

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

Isnt the F22's biggest ace it stealth ability, which Putin doesnt mention.

 

As a lay observer, my impression is the US Air strategy is to engage at long range before being detected.

 

The Russians have focused on manoeuverability,

 

His claims may not be unreasonable, plus like Peter says, although the F22 was introduced in 2005 it first flew in 1990.

 

Nothing like competition to improve performance.

 

I repeat I am not an expert.

[MedicSN6]

Okay, first, 2015? So he is saying that he has something that he really doesn't have? Yes. Maybe a prototype or two.

 

Second, the reason it is more maneuverable is that it is control cable are bungee cords. The U.S. cares about its pilots.

 

Third, I'd put one of our average Navy or Marine fighter pilots against their best guy any day of the week. When the hell is the last time Russia won air superiority?

 

Fourth, does he really think that the U.S. is going to let Russia trump our fighter planes? I am sure there is some U.S. General in Area 51 rubbing his hands together, excitedly saying, "Okay Boeing, what's behind door number three?" right now, as we speak.

 

 

WTF Putin? Keep drinking the vodka. It must be some good stuff.

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

Well the f22 has thrust vectoring as well and is as manoeuverible as the soviet plane. The difference is our missile technoligy is much better. The f22 has what they call super cruse ability. Don't know about the soviet plane. With stelth, Its hard to get a radar missile lock with the amram 120s or phionex, But we have heat seeking stingers, and if that doesen't work then maybe the harm radar seeking will. Or the hellfire opticly guided,the great amount of different missles is what makes the difference in air to air combat. If they can't turn on their radar to lock on the raptor with fear of being locked they can't engage. The tail feathers on the raptor is designed to hide heat signiture, as the soviet plane has none.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Athlon64~SPARTA~

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

One of the definitions of a Fifth Generation fighter is the ability to cruise at supersonic speeds, along with some other things. I just find it funny how Russia has a habit of copying our designs. They should stick to the ones they make themselves. And it's laughable that Putin would attempt to school a pilot on the capabilities of the aircraft.

 

And Bigworm, that jet looks really sleek. I won't be impressed until it does a backflip hatchet-throw

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

Ya thats called the cobra manoeuver, and is done with thrust vectoring at stall speed. But won't do any good aganst a missle lock. It is used for flipping the plane over to get a shot at close range or so.

 

Edited June 18, 2010 by Athlon64~SPARTA~

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

Ok changing the web sight is cool but wheres the u tube post a video link? The insert media doesen't work.

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Athlon, all you should have to do to post video is just to post the link and it'll automatically do it for you. Just copy the URL and paste it to see what happens.

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

Ok got it thanks.

 

Nasa has experamented with the reverse sweped wing design before years ago. I gess it didnot prove to be a real advantage so we haven't used it.But you have got to hand it to the soviets. After their collasp years ago, they really haven't designed anything new for awile. They chopped all of their r/d programs.But starting a come back. After all weve got to have something to shoot down Right?

Edited June 18, 2010 by Athlon64~SPARTA~

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

I like the look of fighter aircraft (especially the F16), but I dont think the russians always copy US aircraft. Form is often defined by function so to some extent similarities will occur. For example these russian planes look great and unique.

 

 

 

 

This does not look like an A10

 

This looks more like a Klingon attack craft than an american attack chopper

 

During the Korean war american kill ratios dropped (a bad thing since they were heavily outnumbered), if I understood correctly top gun was created as a result. In reality russian planes have manoeuvered better than their US counterparts but post war american pilots have been better trained.

 

But like I said I am not an expert.

 

BTW I think vectoring in flight can shake a missile lock, if done at the right time. The missiles high speed means that they may not be able to change direction fast enough. This technique was used by harrier pilots to good effect.

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

The mig 29 is a very formible air craft, it has one of the best look down shoot down dopler radars in the bissness. But its known as the vaccume cleaner, becouse of the engine intakes are so close to the ground, it suckes up any fod on the runnway. It is not a good grass strip or alternave runnway plane.

 

The General dynamics F16 was designed to out fly and out turn anything in the air in that time frame. The f15 strike eagles and the fa18 hornets were designed to deal with the mig 29s very effectivly. The f14 tomcats had the ability to track and lock up to 10 or more targets and engauge them all at the same time.

 

But going back in to the korea conflect to the mig 15 and the f86 saber jet. The mig was lighter. could climb faster, and had a 23mm and bigger i think 37mm auto cannons on it. The sabers held there own aganst the koren pilots really well. And even had a few instances with under cover soviet ace pilots sneeking in there to do battle with us, and we still shot them down. Welcome to mig ally 50 miles. Before the days of supersonic flight. They had air brakes on them to prevent supersonic flight on dives becouse the controlls locked up provideing no control. The first supersonic soviet plane was the mig 17 or 19 if i remember it right. I think it was the mig 19 with the 15 deegre sweped back wings.

You know the arms race.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Athlon64~SPARTA~

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

American pilots did hold their own, but they needed high kill ratios to make up for the difference in the number of fighters. Going from memory (and the history channel, lol) things got better after top gun.

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

Your right, After the introduction of top gun, the kill ratios rose to to 10 to 1 or so.Then came Vietnam and the mig 21 fishbeds and the f4 phantoms a different storie. We still shot them down in droves. Navy carrier pilots did them in.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Athlon64~SPARTA~

[Zathrus~SPARTA~]

Well if it is more manueverable than an F22 then that capability is a waste of money.

The F22 can maneuver at G-forces higher than the human body can endure.

The computer will actually take control of the aircraft after a high G maneuver if the pilot stops inputing control (he has passed out)

Therefore, agility beyond that is pretty much a waste of money.

[peter~SPARTA~]

History channel is not best source of information.

I know you guys are fan-boys, thats ok. But underestimation enemy proof to be very paint full for US in the past.

Starting from Japanese Zero vs Wildcats and Kittyhawks true cobras and early ETO planes who where not match for LW.

Same for Korea and Vietnam in early stages.

Im at work right now so cannot really type.

Athlon , show me US fighter plane not requiring sueargey operation room clean runnways ;-) Before you start complaining about inability of russian airplanes to operate from grass airfields. Btw chk how Mig 29 air intake are made ;)

Russian does not had full scale air war since ww2, so its hard to talk about air superiority. Also they do not operate on same principles as US aviation. Their empire have set up borders and don't really need long range air strikes over seas.

 

Also as last 2 US wars prove air superiority means not much without numbers and permission to kill everything whats move on the ground.

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

I didnot have to peter old buddie, becouse I allready knew, they had to have shutter doors installed later to stop the fod, intakeing from the top of the leading edge of the wing. early models diden't have them. Its missle technoligy that rules in air to air combat.I did mention the mig 29 had the best look down shoot down dopler radar system in it. But if you can't turn on the radar in fear of being locked and engaged then what good is it. I have been studying aircraft for 30 years, and build and fly R/C multi engine aircraft as well. My good buddie Zath is a engineer and was a aircraft mechanic as well. My outher good buddie Dog face is a pilot and was in the air force and my dad flew b17s in ww2.Thats good enough. Uless you think you know more, and if you do then when what was the first aircraft engine to hitt 1000 hp? And what did they do to stop the death dive of a air plane when hitting supersonic speed in a dive outher then air brakes? And what is the proper term of the tail feathers on the f117 stelth fighter? What was the name of the first stressed metel mono wing racer in the 1930s? of witch all the the fighters in ww2 was fashoned after? What is the reynolds calculations. What is the wing moments?

What is a semi smymetrical air foil? What makes a airplane fly? And where is the CG calculated from?

Edited June 26, 2010 by Athlon64~SPARTA~

[Ebden~SPARTA~]

Before you start complaining about inability of russian airplanes to operate from grass airfields.

 

There's a grass airfield at Balota, if that helps. I took off in the RUS 2-seater thingy just fine

[Maj3stic~SPARTA~]

The F-22 is old news anyway. Let them build a Jet that only meets 1997 specs. Ya think this ( http://www.nasa.gov/missions/research/x43-main.html ) is being tested right now for any particular reason? Well do ya? Lets think about this as a new weapons platform? Mach 10 anyone? Old KGB boy Putin will be saying "were did who go?" (Top Gun)

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

The Arora.

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

 

That's. A. Sexy. Jet.

 

Also, I don't want to cause too much controversy or get anybody mad, but yah the Russians have a bad habit of copying and making lesser versions of our planes. The ones they've made on their own are really nice, I just don't understand the reasoning behind their copies of ours, except to make a point to us that they can steal our technology, which is ridiculous when you think about it. Putin's bravado is lol-worthy as well.

 

Back in WWII, we got to steal a Japanese Zero, but we had the good sense not to copy the thing, but to make a plane that exploited its weaknesses, thus was born the F-4. (I think) Europeans developed different types of fighters after studying ours without making direct copies.

 

I made this post to draw attention to the second 5th generation fighter that has been produced so far, and to highlight Putin's silliness Much of it is good humor and coolness, but please I don't want to see things here get nashty over something as silly as who has the best fighter.

 

EDIT: In other news, here's a plane that Russia made in the '30s that NO ONE has yet to copy!

 

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

I agree, no need to take this personally.

 

I dont agree with some of the things said here, but I also think that their interpretation of the F22 is plain ugly, They can make really good looking planes that one seems out of proportion.

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

Actually the italians already built something similar in the 30s

 

Behold Caproni CA60 aka the Capronissimo

 

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

I agree, The origin of the ww2 fighter came from a tompson trophey racer in 1935. The first low wing stressed metel skinn air craft that won the race and set world speed records buy a land slide. It was built buy Howard Huges and called the UH1 Most ALL of the ww2 fighters were copyed from this design. The tompson race was a international race, so all the outher countrys took home the idea of this design and then produced there own devation of this famous aircraft. they copyed it and came up with there own fighters. Hence the jap zero the me 109 mokie, ect.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd126/Athlon64sparta/hughes-h1.jpg Can't get pics to copy on here as well. Uless someone wants to argue the point on this one as well. That is the deal, and the storie behind it. If you don't beleve me then Look it up the the history of flight.Dang you can't post anything on here with out some one wanting to argue the point.

Edited June 26, 2010 by Athlon64~SPARTA~