Persistent Game / Server in ARMA 2?? What are your opinions?

[Phisher~SPARTA~]

I was playing today thinking how it would be nice to have a longer campaign, something bigger than the 8-15 towns. As it is, you can knock through the whole map in a few hours with a full server - but increasing more towns just increases the lag. I was thinking something along the lines of World War II Online, where some campaigns could take months to complete.

 

In ARMA 2 we could achieve something like this, bear with me.

 

We could run a server (Private TacDom) with a standard map (8-15 towns). When the map is completed, we move onto either a more difficult setting / more options available / or a different island. So if it took a week to capture 8 towns with just infantry, then the next map would be 8 towns but more assets available and an increase in difficulty.

 

Ultimately, we would be playing for an endgame of beating the map on expert, or moving to a new island (Return to Sahrani / Panthera). The server would be on a 24 hour day/night cycle to allow for people to enjoy night battles.

 

Even if it was just a few guys on at a time, anything they accomplish, be it take out a patrol, a city, or fly wreck repair, it makes a difference. As it is now, once the server is restarted everything you've done for the past few hours doesn't really mean anything.

 

I know there is a better way to go about this, what I have proposed is almost D&D mixed with ARMA. But, maybe there is another way to achieve this. Maybe even if TacDom Friday's ran on a persistent server that wasn't reset each week.

 

Just my two cents.

 

EDIT: Also, this would encourage mini-tacdom events, maybe just the capture of one town. So if 15 ppl are playing on a Sunday night, rather than a huge coordination requiring many hours, they can hop on the server and attempt to take a single town, with the knowledge that it is having an impact.

 

I also might be incredibly ignorant of how the servers run and if something like this is even a possibility, if it isn't, feel free to shut me up

Edited October 28, 2009 by Phisher

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

I like the idea.

 

We need to think how to implement it.

 

One issue is that a big domination server with many cities tended to crash as it used all the memory of the server (these later versions havent done so yet, but we do run fewer towns).

 

Is there a way to save progress serverside.

[IDAN]

phisher i like the idea

 

would be cool if we could enjoy night battles more often.

[KalXen~SPARTA~]

Well, one way of doing this is to keep a server passworded - lock it when the 'story' is on hold, and unlock when continuing.. but this uses up servers and not the best solution. I don't know of a way to save a MP game offhand, not even sure if there is the code for it to use or where the save would go.

Edited October 28, 2009 by KalXen~SPARTA~

[Ebden~SPARTA~]

Well, one way of doing this is to keep a server passworded - lock it when the 'story' is on hold, and unlock when continuing.. but this uses up servers and not the best solution. I don't know of a way to save a MP game offhand, not even sure if there is the code for it to use or where the save would go.

 

This sounds like some of the MP campaigns discussed on the BI forums, but not implemented well yet. Another mission maker, fleepee on ofpec.com, was telling me that he wanted to take some of his missions and build a MP campaign with an evolving map dependent on player actions. (ex.-sapperman blowed up the castle, it stays blowed up for the rest of the campaign). Having a long MP campaign of this type might satisfy, since it offers better control over start-and-stop of the storyline and shorter-term scaleable missions for us to budget our RL time online.

 

Otherwise we end up with WOW, a persistent world with continuing objectives. I don't think AII can handle it!

[DaiSan]

Well, one way of doing this is to keep a server passworded - lock it when the 'story' is on hold, and unlock when continuing.. but this uses up servers and not the best solution. I don't know of a way to save a MP game offhand, not even sure if there is the code for it to use or where the save would go.

 

The only problem with this is if we leave it too long before continuing, the AI may evolve and when we try and continue we end up facing Phasers, Viper fighters and damn Terminators

[KalXen~SPARTA~]

Well, yes, but only if CyLawyer is in the ame and does some Neverwinter Nights futuristic modifications.

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

There should be at least one random town that gets taken over by zombies.

[MH6~SPARTA~]

You can save multiplayer games, but you have to be careful with serialization. Not everything supports it. I know there are quite a few scripts in Domination that don't. See here.

[Fatal_Papercut~SPARTA~]

So, let's be optimistic for a moment and say that we'll find a way to get this campaign to run the way we want it to. The only other problem I would foresee is coordination. Since people will be dropping in and out of the campaign at different times, it might become difficult to keep track of what objectives have/have not been completed, and what the next/current objective is. If we can find a way to stay on top of the current situation, I think we'd have something interesting.

 

One solution that is coming off the top of my head (and therefore may, in fact, be total crap) is to assign one or two "Commander(s)" that would be in charge offering up-to-date info on what is going on and posting that information on the forums or some other easily-accessible place. A bit of a kludge, I know, and I'm sure we could think up something better, but there it is.

Edited October 28, 2009 by Fatal_Papercut~SPARTA~

[Haloelite]

thats a good plan there papercut have them post a sreport on completed objs and so on. maybe we could have it where it would be on a passworded server so we can keep track of everything and include mods with the campaign

[Ebden~SPARTA~]

The BI forum doesn't leave much promise for anything to try:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?...ght=mp+campaign

 

The first mission of a growing MP campaign is here

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?...ght=mp+campaign

 

Finding an existing drop-in MP campaign doesn't look promising.

 

 

[Cylawyer~SPARTA~]

I'm gonna mod Domination to be a Star Wars Domination, all infantry with blasters, then next level with ATATs, ATRTs and speeders as bonus, etc. The real problem will be implementing the FORCE, but on the plus side, non o' you bastages can get the force, it will only be for the AI character Darth Zeno.

 

Lotsa luck!

[Ebden~SPARTA~]

I'm gonna mod Domination to be a Star Wars Domination, all infantry with blasters, then next level with ATATs, ATRTs and speeders as bonus, etc. The real problem will be implementing the FORCE, but on the plus side, non o' you bastages can get the force, it will only be for the AI character Darth Zeno.

 

Lotsa luck!

 

Someone beat you to the punch

 

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

How f-ing rad is that?

[KalXen~SPARTA~]

just Wow... I'm up for a game of that.

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

I always thought the Star Wars universe could've stood on it's own without the Jedis. After all, outdated weapons and hokey religions are no match for a blaster at your side, kid.

[Cylawyer~SPARTA~]

lol

 

and I was joking!

[GySgt~SPARTA~]

that rocks SW Arma 2 booyah

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

Right lets get back on track please

 

If I understand correctly it may be possible to save progress. Can someone figure out how, please.

 

1.12 domi has a 1 sec=1 minute script so we can run a full day/night mission in one assault.

 

BTW I am going to be Zeno the Hut if I dont get back on my bike instead of playing arma every waking hour.

[MedicSN6]

Right lets get back on track please

 

If I understand correctly it may be possible to save progress. Can someone figure out how, please.

 

1.12 domi has a 1 sec=1 minute script so we can run a full day/night mission in one assault.

 

BTW I am going to be Zeno the Hut if I dont get back on my bike instead of playing arma every waking hour.

 

You can make Maj3stic wear the Leia outfit and put a chain around his neck for amusement.

 

I'd laugh.

 

[jedi]This isn't the porn you're looking for.[/jedi]

[Ebden~SPARTA~]

Right lets get back on track please

If I understand correctly it may be possible to save progress. Can someone figure out how, please.

 

Maps whether SP or MP, have some sort of background code dictating that such-and-such an object is in a modified state, right? Like in Dom, some single (large) script/doc/whatever remembers where that blown up BMP was from early in the map, that the HQ is scatterd with dead Spetsnaz, and that the factory in Berzino is flat. As the game nears completion, it slows while trying to keep the information updating in everyone's view with more and more changes? If I'm somewhere in the ballpark...

 

For an MP campaign, couldn't a simple instruction at the end of a mission save choice parts of the script dealing with modified static objects like damaged buildings, bombarded terrain, and wrecked armor, and insert those modifications when the next mission starts? I assume the map changes from a MP mission are less than we find at the end of a full coop Dom map, so the corresponding modifications would be less, at least in the beginning.

 

This might be a way to maintain some visual linear story to a campaign, since it otherwise disturbs logic to have your AC tower wrecked in one mission, only to find it gleaming in the next.

 

I forsee other problems if a following mission is dependent on an unmodified game object, like a standing building, but creating mission objectives unattached to those sort of objects might work. Example-an early mission involves a heavy, heavy assault of Chernogorsk (Russian or US). A later mission involves returning to Chernogorsk to find intel, meet an enemy convoy, disrupt enemy recovery efforts, etc... If the second mission was dependent on an enemy HQ inside a building, and the building is flat, then problem. If the second mission places the enemy HQ in a bunker or some other temp object on terrain inside the city, but not dependent on any potentially changed objects (terrain damage?), then good. The immersion level would increase because we would 'remember' causing the damage before. If leaving wrecked armor around is possible, then any terrain is risky for future object placement. In that case, and using the above example, could the enemy HQ be inserted following certain rules, such that is may appear anywhere within a radius, but may not be placed too close to modified terrain?

 

Campaigns are desired because they provide better immersion over scenarios. The point of this thread is to share both realtime immersion and a good story with other players. A few key desirables to make this work:

-Increasing familiarity with certain geography (ex. Multiple mission starts from the same HQ and area):

-Increasing familiarity with certian characters (ex. civilian informants/AI friendly and enemy lead characters):

-A well-thought story that integrates the above with multiple forms of gameplay (ex. squadwork, air support and attack, armor support and attack, civilian/humanitarian/(genocidal?) goals.

 

Making one of these, given what I've read on other forums and listened to here about developing the Dom maps, is a massive undertaking. This returns me to Phisher's original comment about a mix of D&D and AII. Pick a storyteller or two, or whatever D&D calls the lead guy, and lock a server. Start a seperate forum section for the game. Set a weekly time to play If the Realtime editor is as handy as it sounds then this might work. The Forum section provides the prologue and non-playable news events that lead up to whatever scenario the storyteller is building in the map with RTE (or similar program). With the server running the same map, and only a minimum of server activity, we could preserve any prior-mission carnage for the storyteller to integrate as he (or she, if any women play this thing), sees fit. Through multiple missions the server will eventually lag out. At that time the storyteller's plot driven side-story about the expanded conflict on some distant land could require our expertise, and the following mission would start us on another map (with prior instructions on what to d/l).

 

This technique could go on for as long as a storyteller, or storytelling team, is willing to keep up on missions and focus on keeping it interesting for the other players. The storyteller can change, but it is the one role where consistency is important to maintain good story development. I'd expect the storyteller to be present at a game night as an omnicient narrator filling various story roles for intel and plot growth. The storyteller, at least in my view, can join the game as well but on opfor or as an independent allied informant moving with the players. There are so many ways to implement this, if the machines, programs, and people can support it.

Edited October 29, 2009 by Ebden~SPARTA~

[PANiC]

can a server load a new map automatically after one is finished? rather than it going to a map/mission choosing screen?

[T_1]

A few of us GR.NET did something similar a while back with OFP Gulf of Aden MP Campaign

[DaiSan]

From looking at the game engine, and past experience, a persistant server would be unworkable as the core game is not designed for this purpose.

 

More effective (and believable) would be an ongoing storyline with the 'Next Episode' written from the results of the previous mission.

 

We did this incorporating MW4 and Ghost Recon at The Banzai Institute For Armoured Warfare and had an RPG forum where stories were advanced.

 

The only problem with this is it puts a HUGE (and I mean ENORMOUS) responibility on the mission makers to get the 'Next Episode' completed, tested and ready for play.

 

To be honest, from my experience with ArmA and ArmA II, it's hard enough just getting people to be arsed to help you with testing a mission, let alone taking on that kind of stress.