Purchasing a shotgun soon, any advice?

[Phisher~SPARTA~]

Hello all, I thought this forum might provide a good mix of advice. (hopefully this doesn't spawn a gun debate amongst US and UK members

 

I recently moved to Los Angeles CA from Omaha Nebraska. I grew up around firearms and am comfortable around them. I recently had an encounter with a squatter in our driveway which made me think again about purchasing a firearm for home safety. I currently live with my girlfriend who is not opposed to the idea, and if we do purchase a firearm, wants to go to a range and learn how to use it properly.

 

My budget is limiting my options. This rules out most handguns, which I don't think I would want right now anyways. The gun laws in LA are more severe for handgun ownership. From what I understand, purchasing a Shotgun won't require anything more than a background check. I am finishing up a graduate program but I don't believe that will be a hinderance - I've heard only if you live in student housing will you be denied.

 

I've been looking and I found this shotgun from Mossberg:

 

http://www.impactguns.com/store/015813513401.html

 

 

The accessories aren't very important to me, but I understand the shotgun to be reliable and good for the price. I've used similar bore shotguns, but only with a shoulder stock. Obviously this is more fire from-the-hip kind of shooting, but that's all Im looking for at the moment.

 

Any advice on this shotgun, other shotguns, or any advice on CA gun laws?

 

EDIT: This is my first purchase of a firearm, so my questions are more about the process. Anything I should be aware of or know in advance, other than what I can read online about the laws? I am not new to shooting, firearm safety, or the difference between munitions and gauge size.

 

Thanks,

 

Phisher

Edited October 6, 2009 by Phisher

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

Well Phish, Mossburg is a good shot gun, Also whats nice about shot guns is the different ammo you can use in it. But for home defence theres nothing better. If you have to use it in the home it will chew up the walls. But better alive with home repair to do, then dead.

Different ammo, regular and magum rounds.

Slugs=one hudge chunk of lead that will stop a charging rino in his tracks, need good sight for these

00 Buck shot- 9 .30 cal lead balls, most affective

#4-6 shot- good for geese and phesent

#7 1/2 shot good for small birds dove, quail,

Steel shot-good for not getting lead posioning

Old school fleshete dart rounds

Rubber nonleathel rounds

Flair rounds

Hard to get exploding on contact rounds.

Rock salt- you know the storie there.

CS Tear gas rounds

 

A shot gun with buck shot in it is only good up to 25 yards with a 18" barrel. There are interchangable barrels avalible for simular shot guns so you can get longer barrels 20" slug barrel, 28" modifyed choke, 36" goose barrel, and use it for hunting also. You also might be able to get a swat tube extention for it and hold 8 to 10 rounds in it instead of just 5 with out the hunting plug.

Maybe check into a folding stock for it, for better control. Maybe a pickananny rail for the top of it so you can quick mount a lazer sight or flash light.

Only outher choice is pump vs auto. If you look around im sure you can get a better price on the mossburg.

I wish you luck in moveing to LA. learn spanish, and wacth out for the gang bangers

There are less expenive hand guns available out there for around the same price in .45 auto .40 and 9mm. Go to flea markets and look in the news paper to find them. Or shop the gun shops.

I myself perfer the larger bore 10 ga shot guns. I have a franchie spas 12 and a ithica 10 gage road blocker in stainless.

Calif gun laws are the same as the rest of the u.s. untill michel moore and his fanatic followers have their way.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Athlon64~SPARTA~

[MedicSN6]

Any advice on this shotgun, other shotguns, or any advice on CA gun laws?

 

Yeah... move to Virginia or Texas!

 

Seriously though, I have looked at that Moss M500 JIC system before and have almost purchased it. You cant go wrong with Mossberg.

 

As far as spurning a debate, you wont. We all respect each others opinions here even though some of us are stubborn as hell (me)!

 

As far as a hand gun goes if you want a .45 look at the 1911 Tac model by Rock Island Armory. Its a nail driver and what I carry as my conceal gun they run about $550, a great price for a 1911A1 style frame.

If you want any other caliber look at a Glock, less functions and it has three safeties, but on one external. It is an awesome weapon. I am looking at getting the Glock Model 21 SHort Frame which is a more manageable frame in .45 ACP.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Medic~SPARTA~

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

Heres a inexpensive auto hand gun, High point, I don't know if they are worth a dam or not , havent shot one so I don't know.

http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/handguns/4...oint_45acp.html

Edited October 6, 2009 by Athlon64~SPARTA~

[MedicSN6]

Heres a inexpensive auto hand gun, High point, I don't know if they are worth a dam or not , havent shot one so I don't know.

http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/handguns/4...oint_45acp.html

 

 

Remember the old saying, "you get what you pay for." I have shot the .45 hi-point as well as the 9mm version and both have problems with feeding, ejecting and feel extremely clumsy and bulky in my hands. are they a good starter pistol for just getting the feel of shooting? some would say yes, but I disagree. You would learn to compensate for the weapon instead of controlling the weapon using the fundamentals of handgun shooting. If you have that core ability to shoot, you will be able to shoot almost anything with little to no trouble.

 

Even though the hi-point series is very tempting because of its look and especially its price, stay away. Leave them for the drug dealers and crazies out there. Self defense shooters like it when the bad guy's gun is a POS, it buys us time.

 

Other brands that you should look into with the most expensive at the top:

 

Kimber

Para-Ordnance

HK USP series

 

The next few range in price and have weapons in numerous price brackets. the standards though will run from $450 and up)

Beretta, what I carried in the Army 92FS, a new one might be nice considering the one I was issued what all but shot out. but many Law enforcement dept. are switching to the newer Beretta models like the PX4. Maryland State Police are shooting the newer model and love it.

Glock, always a good buy. But, stay away from the .45 GAP models, the ammo is expensive and hard to get.

Sig Sauer, local SWAT team is switching from the P220 to the new Glock 21SF with the picatinny rail.

Springfield Armory - XD series (Award winning and it comes with a kydex style holster) customizable grip frame.

Smith & Wesson, a staple in firearms, legendary even.

Rock Island Armory, which has been proven to be reliable and less expensive than other 1911s

 

Then you have the next group which for their price are reliable and safe:

 

Kel-Tec, which are making a name for themselves nowadays

Bursa

CZ, made in the Chec Republic. I have never shot one but have heard good things about them.

 

and at the bottom... hi-point

I would rather sand paper the asshole of an alligator in a phone booth than put my trust in a hi-point pistol to save my life.

 

Hope this helps.

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

HA HA! well he wants inexpensive. The Fies are good to.

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

If I'm not mistaken, that shotgun may tear up the walls, but it has much less of a chance of going completely through them to hurt others than a handgun will, especially when loaded with buck. I have kids and neighbors, so that's my first thought when I think about this stuff.

[Phisher~SPARTA~]

I appreciate the advice guys. I thing getting a folding stock and a top rail will be best.

Right now, I live in a fairly nice but smaller apartment complex, 6 units, shared courtyard. A handgun being discharged inside will likely go through the walls into the next unit. I think getting buckshot is just the smartest idea, hard to miss, doesn't have the penetration of a .45.

 

It's funny about the CA gun laws - I've never had an inherent fear or fascination with firearms. I was raised by moderate parents who viewed firearms as a tool rather than a weapon to commit crimes. Which seems to be how many out here think. I don't bash on these views, but I've had to curtail some of my opinions on the matter on more than one occasion.

 

The shotgun to me seems like a no-brainer. It's simple, reliable, and is really only effective when you absolutely need it.

 

EDIT: Just saw your post Durka, that was my first thought as well - I don't mind what it does to the drywall, if I need penetration I will keep a few slugs on standby.

 

Well I'll keep you guys updated on the process.

 

Thanks

Edited October 6, 2009 by Phisher

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Yeah, I've got my old grandfather's 410 bolt-action shotgun over at my new house, but I'd never even think of using it for home protection since the barrel's about the length of a 1760's musket and I'd have to point it up just to turn a corer in the hallway, lol. My other option is my Dad's 30/30, which I love, but it's only good for open terrain hunting.

 

This reminds me of a story where a local cop was "practicing" raising his weapon in front of the mirror. Of course, the dunce had it loaded, and he made a mistake, put his hand in front of the barrel instead of the trigger guard. It surprised him, and he pulled the trigger, blew a hole in his hand, through the mirror and outside wall of the house, and it passed through his neighbor's house and lodged into a closet somewhere. I thought of that story alot when I wanted a handgun for my old apartment. I decided against it at the time.

 

That being said, there was an incident where one of our local SF associations officially repremanded one of its members because he used an "insufficient calibre" weapon to stop a home intruder, lol. It was with a .22 and he shot the guy like 8 times or something.

[MedicSN6]

That being said, there was an incident where one of our local SF associations officially repremanded one of its members because he used an "insufficient calibre" weapon to stop a home intruder, lol. It was with a .22 and he shot the guy like 8 times or something.

 

 

This from the same brilliant minds that use a three letter acronym (P.O.V.) to describe/replace a three letter word (car). They never cease to amaze.

 

This is also why I carry a .45.

 

When they ask me why I shot the man 9 times, I will simply reply that 9 was all the gun could hold.

[KalXen~SPARTA~]

Remington 870, simple standard and reliable. If its for home defense, the sound of loading may be enough.

 

Not to mention, you might go Dove hunting one day.

[Ebden~SPARTA~]

Don't forget the aftermath when considering your purchase, which may be justifying self-defense or defense of property and family in front of a judge. (especially in LA, I'm sure you'll find some savvy and amoral lawyers).

 

Self-defense via physical force (knifes, fists, firearms), has some very clear grounds differentiating violence/un-necessary force and true self defense. A helpful website is here, but I'm sure Google will find you others on the topic. Also, for California specifically, look into California's Penal Code. I cannot directly reference the information on this website to the California Penal Code, but it is along the lines of things to consider when keeping a firearm for protection.

 

You also need to consider the life the firearm will lead before you _never_ call on it for self-defense (we all hope nobody needs to use the damn thing for anything other than killing clay pigeons).

 

I attended my first NRA pistol course years ago, with the youthful intent of 'excercising my right to carry concealed' in Maine. The instructor ended the course talking about the ethics of shooting someone, and the permit to carry in no way prepares you to actually use it in self-defense. The emotional crisis which comes after shooting someone is a topic on which I can only speculate, but anyone who's carried will advocate that training is the best preparation to both better your legal defense AND keep your shit together when you've made a CSI-worthy mess of your foyer. Smith and Wesson has a school which comes highly reccomended from a few who have attended, including that Cold-War Vet/Police Sgt/NRA Pistol instructor. And train your spouse and kids as well-they should be as closely prepared as you, if they end up point on the front stairwell.

 

This isn't supposed to discourage you, but encourage you to train up and take care of those other critical details. You've used firearms as a tool for recreation and hunting, (I do too) but if you drop someone with a gun then it'll be a whole lot more than a tool in the aftermath.

 

But to end on a slightly lighter note, either the Mossberg 500 or Rem 870, and associated variants of each, are relatively simple, effective firearms. Avoid automatics for home defense (whether it's a pistol or long-gun). Too much can go wrong with an auto stuck in your dresser drawer full of sock lint, and the maintenance and use of a pump is that much easier for a family. Good of you to consider the neighbors as well, but I suspect 00-buck will clear through at least 1 2x4 at close range with some killing power left. (I've never used anything bigger than #4-anyone know what it'll do?). Also-no need for any 3" mag rounds. You'll be just fine in CQB with 2-3/4, so save on the kick for 1st-shot stopping power and precision.

[MedicSN6]

Don't forget the aftermath when considering your purchase, which may be justifying self-defense or defense of property and family in front of a judge. (especially in LA, I'm sure you'll find some savvy and amoral lawyers).

 

Self-defense via physical force (knifes, fists, firearms), has some very clear grounds differentiating violence/un-necessary force and true self defense. A helpful website is here, but I'm sure Google will find you others on the topic. Also, for California specifically, look into California's Penal Code. I cannot directly reference the information on this website to the California Penal Code, but it is along the lines of things to consider when keeping a firearm for protection.

 

You also need to consider the life the firearm will lead before you _never_ call on it for self-defense (we all hope nobody needs to use the damn thing for anything other than killing clay pigeons).

 

I attended my first NRA pistol course years ago, with the youthful intent of 'excercising my right to carry concealed' in Maine. The instructor ended the course talking about the ethics of shooting someone, and the permit to carry in no way prepares you to actually use it in self-defense. The emotional crisis which comes after shooting someone is a topic on which I can only speculate, but anyone who's carried will advocate that training is the best preparation to both better your legal defense AND keep your shit together when you've made a CSI-worthy mess of your foyer. Smith and Wesson has a school which comes highly reccomended from a few who have attended, including that Cold-War Vet/Police Sgt/NRA Pistol instructor. And train your spouse and kids as well-they should be as closely prepared as you, if they end up point on the front stairwell.

 

This isn't supposed to discourage you, but encourage you to train up and take care of those other critical details. You've used firearms as a tool for recreation and hunting, (I do too) but if you drop someone with a gun then it'll be a whole lot more than a tool in the aftermath.

 

But to end on a slightly lighter note, either the Mossberg 500 or Rem 870, and associated variants of each, are relatively simple, effective firearms. Avoid automatics for home defense (whether it's a pistol or long-gun). Too much can go wrong with an auto stuck in your dresser drawer full of sock lint, and the maintenance and use of a pump is that much easier for a family. Good of you to consider the neighbors as well, but I suspect 00-buck will clear through at least 1 2x4 at close range with some killing power left. (I've never used anything bigger than #4-anyone know what it'll do?). Also-no need for any 3" mag rounds. You'll be just fine in CQB with 2-3/4, so save on the kick for 1st-shot stopping power and precision.

 

Sound advice. Also, be prepared to spend one or two nights in jail until the detectives figure everything out. Your gun will be confiscated as evidence. There are many things to consider, although the other side... being dead... makes the latter more palatable.

 

btw, Ebden, I LOL'd at the "...to both better your legal defense AND keep your shit together when you've made a CSI-worthy mess of your foyer. " Too funny.

[wheelow]

Mossberg M590A1. Same thing issued to the US Army.

 

 

I added the stock adapter and stock in place of the traditional rifle style stock.

Has a Magpul MIAD grip on it now, standard AR15 grips SUCK.

[Ebden~SPARTA~]

Your gun will be confiscated as evidence.

 

Right-Medic's point is good to consider when budgeting and accessorizing. It must suck for that guy who used is Purdey side-along.

 

 

btw, Ebden, I LOL'd at the "...to both better your legal defense AND keep your shit together when you've made a CSI-worthy mess of your foyer. " Too funny.

 

Well, it's true isn't it? (My wife and I have been on a CSI binge for the last week, ever since we saw the episode 901 rerun, hence the reference)

[Halli~SPARTA~]

Problem solved.

 

 

 

[MedicSN6]

I don't think Ebden's poodle mix will do the job.

 

Also, in my shotty, I alternate 00 shot and slugs. 4 of each.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Medic~SPARTA~

[Ebden~SPARTA~]

Problem solved.

 

Halli, it seems fitting that you would task a dog to do your work...

 

 

Kidding!

[Ebden~SPARTA~]

I don't think Ebden's poodle mix will do the job.

 

The idea is to freak the intruder to the point where he feels he will be violated (as if a shotgun wasn't enough of a hint)

[Halli~SPARTA~]

Buy ya one of those round locks that sounds like and old 1911 when ya turn the key real fast and back.

[Elvis~SPARTA~]

If I'm not mistaken, that shotgun may tear up the walls, but it has much less of a chance of going completely through them to hurt others than a handgun will, especially when loaded with buck.

 

 

00 buck in a magnum shell will penetrate about the same as a .38 round, so it's going through drywall several time over.

 

For the shotty, the Moss 500 or Remington 870 will both serve you well. There are plenty of variations that will allow you to spend and customize them to you've completely run out of money, but the cheapest will kill an intruder just as dead as the most expensive.

 

Accessories: Blackhawk/Knoxx stock. Telescopic, pistol grip and abosorbs recoil, and you can add a holder for extra rounds. surefire forend for reliable ergonomic light. Magazine extension.

 

Of course I went hog wild and added a specops sidesaddle that includes an optics mount and an aimpoint micro-t-1 red dot sight, so I've got 6+1 rounds, plus 10 outside.

 

If you've ever seen the documentary "Terminator 2", you know that the only thing that will slow down the T-1000 terminator is a slug, and you need plenty of them. Some people believe that movie to be "science fiction," but you can't be too careful.

 

As far as pistols go, buy one you are comfortable with and can afford that is used by military or LE. 40 or 45. If you don't plan on practicing, get a Glock as it is almost as idiot proof as a revolver. Other recommendations here will also serve you well but may require a tiny bit more skill.

 

 

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

I didnt want to say anything but you might have guessed you have come to the right place for these types of questions.

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

I didnt want to say anything but you might have guessed you have come to the right place for these types of questions.

 

 

lmao! Ain't that the truth!

[Haloelite]

instead of deciding he now has too many choices to chose from.

[MedicSN6]

Halo, he always had just as many choices. The difference is, he knows about them now. Knowing of the choices makes it easier to decide, mot more difficult.

 

'This zen moment of the day has been brought to you by the letters K and Y and the numbers 6 and 9.'