Announcing: Sparta Tactical Domination Nights: UPDATED

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Alright, if I can get enough interest, which is more than 5 people at a time, I will run you guys through some practice drills on how to move under fire. I'll be on this week, so when you see me on, let me know if you want to go through it and I'll be happy to. It's not a matter that you guys already know it, it's just trying to implement it in game and practice it. But, the main point is....

 

STAY IN YOUR LANE

 

 

 

 

For reference to those who've never heard that before.

Imagine yourself on a firing range, and the targets pop up 200m out. You also have people to the left and right of you firing at targets. You're not going to shoot their targets, are you? (although it happens on occasion) Anyways, that's your "lane" or "Firing Lane." It's also applied to large troop movements. You stay in that corridor when you're moving to the target, and don't stray out of it or 3 things will happen.

1. You'll get shot

2. You'll shoot your teammate

3. When you shift over, the teams who are anchored to your left/right will naturally shift too, which isn't good.

 

Lanes have been in use since before Alexander the Great. Use them, love them.

Tips for commanders: For ArmaII, it may be useful to group everyone in the squad in 3's, then give them all an objective to reach, the main objective being the center. Don't split them in comms, just in the team, like Zeno did today. He had the center of the line, then the left flank, and right flank, we just didn't have set people in each flank.

 

 

[GySgt~SPARTA~]

Sorry i missed the fun i worked 12 1/2 hours today was to dam tired to focus

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

That ridgeline attack was perfect, apart from leaving the Mortar without backup.

 

The move to the ridge was great and the line on the ridge was exactly what I hoped for.

 

The town wasnt as populated with armour as I thought, but with so much fire power we could have dealt with it.

 

I have used the bounding cover before and think its a great manoeuvre, but I do need to help people by defining their roles (centre, left flank, right flank), and my first bound was way too long.

 

I did get sloppy around the church. this is because I find it hard to get a large group through a built up area effectively, this is why I passed that off to the maestro and focused on the tower with Dai. I would like to get some training on that.

 

The comms were good and even when they werent a sharp word from someone bought it back into line. In my experience once you achieve a critical mass it is that group that holds sway, so when 75% use comms in a certain way the other 25% will follow suit.

 

Panic youre right the LZ always draws attention and if the LZ is close you get nice welcome to the target message in the form of a lot of armour. This isnt always bad if you set up for it quick, but getting setup under constant fire isnt optimal. Anti air guys did a good job, we should change the ammo box script just for tac dom so that there is planty off AA in the box so we dont have to individually take stingers out of the box and dump them on the ground.

 

I want to thank Sneaky for working with me on the 2 plans and for going ahead and scouting, great work.

 

And thanks to all of you for a good evening.

[DaiSan]

Ok, I'm gonna probably make myself unpopular here (but what's new huh ).

 

I Still feel there is too much micro management going on here. I'm not talking about training or drills, we all need that whether it's learning a new skill or practising old ones. What I'm talking about is discounting the eyes on the ground and the players ability to judge the correct path and approach to complete an objective or reach a goal.

 

I feel that often I am being directed to go or move in a certain direction by someone who has no eyes on my cover routes or terrain details and is sending me into certain doom.

 

I understand that it is difficult in the heat of war to command or make snap decisions when all hell is breaking loose, but if anything, giving players MORE latitude on their routes and movement, lessens the commanders work load.

 

We have a LOT of experienced players here and I for one feel confident that if I issue an order to some players or groups to move TOO a certain location, THEY will move there using the best route and cover available, without me saying "OK, sneak to the next bush and wait 10 seconds, then move on".

 

If we do not have the confidence to do this then surely it is US not providing the correct training to players, or not putting the right squads together. Put the less experienced people with teh more experienced ones and let the SQUAD leader sort the groundwork out.

 

As a Mission commander I want an easy life. I want to say stuff like "Alpha, move to xxx and blow xxx up. Bravo move to xxx and cover Alpha." Then get back to my map to work out the next bit knowing Alpha and Bravo are doing their job.

 

What I don't want, and feel we have at the moment is more like, "Alpha, move to xxx, using this path (dots on the map) in this formation, with this spacing, in this order, at this speed, yadda yadda yadda". It is not conducive to an easy life for the Commander and annoying for Alpha because they can see a perfectly good route or path to get to X because they are right there on the ground. But it ain't along the dots.

 

You know what I feel is the main problem after typing this, we are trying to run a live game AND training at the same time, and tbh that is going to be a SLOW process with a LOT of frustration for ALL parties.

 

Anyway, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone or anything in particular, just noting things I see and hear and things that might explain certain... problems we are facing.

 

Dai out !

[Luggage~SPARTA~]

Firstly, apologies to T1, who should be held up as an example of the patient player type I can only begin to emulate by 10%. Having come in and only used minimal comms to get up to speed, he was assigned to anti-air role just as the last chopper was taken down. Not only did he stick to that role for some 30 minutes, but he didn't complain that he was out of the action.

 

I can only apologise once again T1. my pitiful excuse was that I was not organised with my normal piece of paper.

 

Secondly an apology to the group for the first town in general. We were in trouble the moment we landed at the LZ, and it was far too frantic to try and get a plan. I wasn't then particularly happy with the approach that we had to make. We were essentially on a ridge, facing a higher ridge, and the zone to cross wasn't good. I then proceeded to dither and I should have taken us in another way. As mentioned by previous posters, we need an LZ that is further away. Young Mr Sneaky (hereafter/henceforth known as "Rangefinder 1:25000" (UK Joke and not verty funny)) seems to have a decent grasp of what the telephone and pub symbols mean on the map and brought us in nicely with cover for the subsequent towns. I vote he gets lumbered promoted to that task wherever possible,

 

I personally struggle with single channel comms on that scale. I believe squads do need to chatter amongst themselves to some degree, and therefore control becomes difficult. When you are pushy like me it is easy to get a slot, but I know there is good information that could be passed up the line that probably gets missed.

 

Dai and myself both have slightly different variants on a comms strategy, both of which involve setting up keys and 'stuff' on TS. If the numbers keep up I was wondering whether the senior members would consider some experimentation?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pikey~SPARTA~]

missed it got blue screened again, ripping compy apart today for a clean out

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

Ok, I'm gonna probably make myself unpopular here (but what's new huh <_>

 

I Still feel there is too much micro management going on here. I'm not talking about training or drills, we all need that whether it's learning a new skill or practising old ones. What I'm talking about is discounting the eyes on the ground and the players ability to judge the correct path and approach to complete an objective or reach a goal.

 

I feel that often I am being directed to go or move in a certain direction by someone who has no eyes on my cover routes or terrain details and is sending me into certain doom.

 

I understand that it is difficult in the heat of war to command or make snap decisions when all hell is breaking loose, but if anything, giving players MORE latitude on their routes and movement, lessens the commanders work load.

 

We have a LOT of experienced players here and I for one feel confident that if I issue an order to some players or groups to move TOO a certain location, THEY will move there using the best route and cover available, without me saying "OK, sneak to the next bush and wait 10 seconds, then move on".

 

If we do not have the confidence to do this then surely it is US not providing the correct training to players, or not putting the right squads together. Put the less experienced people with teh more experienced ones and let the SQUAD leader sort the groundwork out.

 

As a Mission commander I want an easy life. I want to say stuff like "Alpha, move to xxx and blow xxx up. Bravo move to xxx and cover Alpha." Then get back to my map to work out the next bit knowing Alpha and Bravo are doing their job.

 

What I don't want, and feel we have at the moment is more like, "Alpha, move to xxx, using this path (dots on the map) in this formation, with this spacing, in this order, at this speed, yadda yadda yadda". It is not conducive to an easy life for the Commander and annoying for Alpha because they can see a perfectly good route or path to get to X because they are right there on the ground. But it ain't along the dots.

 

You know what I feel is the main problem after typing this, we are trying to run a live game AND training at the same time, and tbh that is going to be a SLOW process with a LOT of frustration for ALL parties.

 

Anyway, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone or anything in particular, just noting things I see and hear and things that might explain certain... problems we are facing.

 

Dai out !

 

To the extent I did that it was because you were the lead element of a bigger force and I needed the main element to follow the same path, but I undertand what your saying.

 

[T_1]

Firstly, apologies to T1, ....

 

None needed. I was sitting eating all the rations

 

I personally struggle with single channel comms on that scale. I believe squads do need to chatter amongst themselves to some degree, and therefore control becomes difficult. When you are pushy like me it is easy to get a slot, but I know there is good information that could be passed up the line that probably gets missed.

 

I agree with you Luggage, there was too much chatter for a commander to work with, and not enough for squads. I still finding myself using TS to speak to the commander and Direct Comms ingame, problem is people tend to respond on TS

 

BTW I've found a Teamspeak Overlay variant I use to tell who's using the TS Channel http://www.playclaw.com

 

 

I Still feel there is too much micro management going on here. I'm not talking about training or drills, we all need that whether it's learning a new skill or practising old ones. What I'm talking about is discounting the eyes on the ground and the players ability to judge the correct path and approach to complete an objective or reach a goal.

 

I feel that often I am being directed to go or move in a certain direction by someone who has no eyes on my cover routes or terrain details and is sending me into certain doom.

 

I understand that it is difficult in the heat of war to command or make snap decisions when all hell is breaking loose, but if anything, giving players MORE latitude on their routes and movement, lessens the commanders work load.

 

We have a LOT of experienced players here and I for one feel confident that if I issue an order to some players or groups to move TOO a certain location, THEY will move there using the best route and cover available, without me saying "OK, sneak to the next bush and wait 10 seconds, then move on".

 

If we do not have the confidence to do this then surely it is US not providing the correct training to players, or not putting the right squads together. Put the less experienced people with teh more experienced ones and let the SQUAD leader sort the groundwork out.

 

As a Mission commander I want an easy life. I want to say stuff like "Alpha, move to xxx and blow xxx up. Bravo move to xxx and cover Alpha." Then get back to my map to work out the next bit knowing Alpha and Bravo are doing their job.

 

What I don't want, and feel we have at the moment is more like, "Alpha, move to xxx, using this path (dots on the map) in this formation, with this spacing, in this order, at this speed, yadda yadda yadda". It is not conducive to an easy life for the Commander and annoying for Alpha because they can see a perfectly good route or path to get to X because they are right there on the ground. But it ain't along the dots.

 

You know what I feel is the main problem after typing this, we are trying to run a live game AND training at the same time, and tbh that is going to be a SLOW process with a LOT of frustration for ALL parties.

 

Anyway, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone or anything in particular, just noting things I see and hear and things that might explain certain... problems we are facing.

 

Dai out !

 

It's not down to anyone individual, but down to the command structure we find our selves in at the time.

 

When I was sitting back at the ammo crate munching my way through my third packet of beef stew and dumplings, I had a look at the number of players which Luggage was commanding, (I think it was 8 or 9) and wondered why it hadn't been split into to 4 man teams.

 

On the next town there was two teams, but it consisted of two on Anti Air and the rest on assault, by the third town we were getting there with the addition of an advance team, and recon team.

 

Comms on on channel contributes to the "micro managment" issue, but at the end of the day it relies on people stepping up and taking on the role of squad leader, allowing the Mission Commander to concentrate on where they are sending each squad. Which Durka did rallying everyone at the church, then moving through the town.

 

It's still early days remember, it's been what three weeks of Tactical Domination to get this stage, which all things considered is good IMHO.

 

I still would advocate following the Shack Tac guide to squads.

 

Anyway back to my ratpack ... where's the chocolate pudding ....

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

the big advantage of all being in one channel for now is that people learn to stay quiet and can be bought into line, if there are enough regulars, that habit will be carried to the squad level and we can switch to seperate comms.

 

We are trying to simulate military tactics but where the unseen commander in chiefs (the wives of the commanders) can order them to perform other duties, where critical players drift in and out based on RL constraints.

 

The tactics are based on, amongst other things the number of players. The first mission was based on x players, by the time we were really into it there were 2x players. Based on that number I am sure a different approach would have been conceived.

 

The early evening missions are plagued by this, but it just has to be dealt with.

 

Keeping these things in mind I think we are doing ok.

 

[Lightspeed~SPARTA~]

Look my two cents is comms are improving dramatically - the amount of worthless chatter is diminishing rapidly - brilliant.

 

I also feel that micromanagement is also not the way to go.

 

I as a Commander would prefer to elect a team leader per squad and say Alpha Leader I want you to get to that waypoint and report back if you have issues.

 

Bravo go here and report back likewise.

 

I trust 99% of players to get stuff done right - and if they dont - they learn very quickly for the next mission.

 

Example - I had a few guys a week ago, very trustworthy, given the order to proceed to take the town as they felt they could. They got hammered. End result, they learnt as I thought they might that next time they might not be as confident and take it more slowly.

 

I can micromanage but its not as fun. All I ask is that if you choose to rush in and get slaughtered that you do it as a team. The only thing I don't tolerate is a rambo or lone wolf to the point that if they choose to play that way, they will NOT get a revive...period.

 

Otherwise, have fun and learn and hopefully get it right.

 

 

 

 

[T_1]

Something else to think about, someone should be designated to sort out the people coming into the server, a Second in command if you like, Team assignment, weapons load out, where and how to meet up with the main squad etc. This should take some of the presure of the commander, but would have to be sorted out quite early on with the commander.

 

Perhaps SPARTA members should, by default, go as the initial squad leaders when there's enough people on the server.

[NCO]

A second in command (2IC) makes a ton of sense. A platoon 2IC role (actual) is to stay near the zulu vehicles (empty troop carriers), ensure their security, supervise direct fire support for the IC, handle logistics, bring up the zulus when ordered, handle resupply & medical evacs, etc...

[at least a long time ago, it was ...]

 

In game, this guy could handle all that stuff, new players entering, PWs, mortars, helo's etc... and support the IC who is on the line.

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

A second in command (2IC) makes a ton of sense. A platoon 2IC role (actual) is to stay near the zulu vehicles (empty troop carriers), ensure their security, supervise direct fire support for the IC, handle logistics, bring up the zulus when ordered, handle resupply & medical evacs, etc...

[at least a long time ago, it was ...]

 

In game, this guy could handle all that stuff, new players entering, PWs, mortars, helo's etc... and support the IC who is on the line.

 

 

Makes a lot of sense. Even if all players are in one channel, this guy could stay in the team assignment room and place join-in-progressors in squads, then move them out once a suitable size get's done. All support communication could go to him, keeping requests off the main TS.

 

Just a quick graphical rough draft reference.

 

 

 

[T_1]

I like the way you've laid that out Durka, and using text commands was something I hadn't considered but could see working quite well.

 

If we are going to give this a go, I'll volunteer to do it on the next outing, if no one else wants to.

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Thats great T1. I still haven't figured out where the 2IC would stay in TS, I'm thinking in the team assignment channel so newbies can directly talk to you.

 

You would then send them to a designated channel, then text something like "Alpha squad, Watchman is coming in to your group" or "commander, a new group has been assembled at the Farp, sending in reinforcements. Team leader is Halli."

 

I'm guessing the 2IC would be stationed at the Farp so he can control all logistics, choppers and such.

[T_1]

Either the FARP or at the LZ with the Chopper to provide some security for the Anti Air/Mortar team. Might try both and see how they play out.

 

 

[Haloelite]

and possibly for the arty soldiers at frap could with a permanent forward observer that is assigned that they both know who is who and possibly put them in a separate channel so the can communicate but is in quick contact with the ground troops if they in need of support.

[T_1]

and possibly for the arty soldiers at frap could with a permanent forward observer that is assigned that they both know who is who and possibly put them in a separate channel so the can communicate but is in quick contact with the ground troops if they in need of support.

 

Why would you need this against the layout which Durka has indicated?

[Haloelite]

hmm didn't see that my bad im half awake as it is

[T_1]

Sorry I had to bug out tonight after the T72 took Custard and I out, but my ArmA2 crashed and I had to go and do some stuff before work tomorrow.

[KalXen~SPARTA~]

One more asset you have to work with - the commander channel in game. This is seen between only team leads in game and can help with some more updates without spamming the world.

[Ebden~SPARTA~]

We are trying to simulate military tactics but where the unseen commander in chiefs (the wives of the commanders) can order them to perform other duties, where critical players drift in and out based on RL constraints..

 

I can't help but think this comment has something to do with me!

 

I like the 2IC idea, but it'll have to be a position that changes every mission. What a drag for someone who gets type-cast and left at the helos every time.

 

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

I wasnt thinking of you particularly, lol.

 

But its just to say we cant take it too seriously when anyone can be called away at any time.

 

But we do our best.

[StrongHarm]

I have noticed that in game channels with few end points are very reliable. I use the ingame vehicle channel very successfully when flying with a gunner. I have had to turn my TS volume down so I can hear my gunner over the 30 second explanations of where an enemy parachute is falling. I have removed my key for press to talk in game (CapsLock) and use it for TS. I use doubletapCapsLock (default) for toggle ingame channel open. I find this to be very convenient.

 

The proximity channel (Direct Communications?) works very well also. Maybe this could be used on a squad level? If the squad is moving in a wedge (and they aren't running forward all willy nilly john wayne) they'll see the squad commander call a halt and take a knee. They'll know to gather around for instructions. Being deaf on a squad level would be very interesting. TeamSpeak would be equivalent to the radio chatter one hears from a vehicle in RL. Each squad member could tune into TeamSpeak only in emergency situations.. like with a PRC90. For normal squad comms, we'd have to pass instructions back through the formation with DirectCom. Maybe this would be TOO real? heheh

[custard~SPARTA~]

Sorry I had to bug out tonight after the T72 took Custard and I out, but my ArmA2 crashed and I had to go and do some stuff before work tomorrow.

 

No worries I learnt alot thanks for the create new team and press esc twice to see team leader info very useful in vet mode.

 

I still worry about my leadership qualities after being railroaded into leading mission by luggage thanks mate.

 

Initialy I did want two teams covering each other moving into the AO supported by Luggage on the mortar, I got obsessed about spotting the D30s and separated my team to my disgust.

 

This will not happen again.

 

I learnt that we need to practice moving as a group in the staggered column formation at least half of us don't do this correctlly, Hoot needs help practicing para jumps (he is definitlly not the only one) we need to get him sorted all it takes is some instruction and practice.

 

Lots of other stuff but it's gone from my head for the moment.