Announcing: Sparta Tactical Domination Nights: UPDATED

[KalXen~SPARTA~]

1. Although it is more tactical I think with all these new ppl it might be better to keep running with the green diamonds showing so you know where your team is at. In the future when 99% know the score then pull back the help - but I think diamonds are an aid without being too novice.

 

I understand your concern about being able to see where your team is, but I think that concern can be covered by keeping the squads to a manageable size and giving individuals set responsibilities prior to attack. This can be done in a way to keep Veteran on and effective for Tactical.

 

For Bravo last night, a team of 5-6 was quite manageable to keep visual contact on your squad mates. Veteran mode on really makes you think twice about who your targets are, where are you heading, etc. It requires more planning/communication. I believe one issue is when Alpha squad becomes the 'catch all' where everyone besides Bravo goes. As people join the server, it dynamically grows making it an amorphous blob which is hard to manage. Alpha may become more manageable in bit-size chunks like Bravo by identifying individual responsibilities via subteams that have specific purposes. Examples...

1. Scout/Sniper team providing intel via global channel markers on map for both Alpha and Bravo; Once alpha engages, they take out soft targets to assist bravo insertion and continue to pull city away from Bravo.
2. Mortar team providing smoke / AOE between teams.
3. Rest of Alpha broke into Alpha 1 + Alpha 2 squads to provide left / right wing control of the attack

 

You could keep everyone in Alpha still in the same audio channel, but this gives specific jobs for the members, hence making control easier based on responsibilities.

[Phisher~SPARTA~]

I thought last night went well considering the circumstances. Most of the problems people are sharing are the result of what transpired after the loss of our TS channel at the beginning.

 

The original plan was to split everyone into manageable groups. When TS went down there was a couple hour lull, when TS came back on I noticed a few players on as well as Zeno. We started a very small TacDom game, 5 people, and were going to play very smart and deliberate. Before we even engaged at the first town we were back up to 20-25 people.

 

This forced us to organize on the move, in veteran mode, while maintaining organized comms - it would be difficult for anyone.

 

After the first town it got better. I was in Bravo team, assigned to attack the radiotower in both cities. We were able to insert under the confusion, use suppressed weapons to deal with immediate threats, destroy the objective and evac. I remember the second city having contacts less than 50m away and letting them pass by as we stayed weapons yellow - quite exciting.

 

I guess where I am heading with this, is that Veteran mode made us organize - it made people listen and didn't allow them to run off and rambo, even on a micro scale. I think we should keep it for the rest of the TacDom nights. It makes the spotter and mortar team essential - and no longer can someone chute in a click away and spot everything on the map.

 

Excluding the confusion at the beginning I thought it went very well. Smaller squads of 5-8 people are way more manageable and would be more enjoyable for everyone in Veteran mode.

 

Essentially, normal mode is not training - the more we play on Veteran mode the smarter everyone will be. Each squad has a point man capable of reading the map and leading their squad when bombs start dropping.

 

With Bravo last night I felt either a perceived perception of having more fun or it was genuine - my explanation for this is that the entire game wasn't filled with exploding tanks and arty drops. There were moments of stealth, quiet, ambushes and bounding cover, quickly contrasted with firefights and overwhelming AT fire. It's common sense that when you're engaging non-stop the thrill can dissipate, when you have high-points and low-points - it makes the skirmishes feel much more intense.

 

I now feel that Normal mode is like playing with cheat codes.

 

Wow this is getting way too long, especially for my first post.

 

Simply put, Veteran mode made some men out of boys, it was a rocky start but eventually proved to be what I think all of us want TacDom to be.

Edited October 3, 2009 by Phisher

[Ebden~SPARTA~]

Simply put, Veteran mode made some men out of boys, it was a rocky start but eventually proved to be what I think all of us want TacDom to be.

 

Are you kidding you poetic sod, MEN out of BOYS. haha.

 

The setup, with Bravo running independent and overflow directed to Alpha, was superbly obnoxious. I have one small modification to the method, which can help set responsibilities for administration in TS and keep comms quiet. This should be easy to implement...

 

Initial squads setup, loadout as appropriate, etc...but keep #s in each squad tight, even if the last squad is under-#d (Alpha 6, Bravo 6, Charlie 2).

 

Once JIP begins, first direct all JIP to the last squad (just to keep the order straight, I always figured Alpha would be the CO squad, so JIP to Bravo, Charlie, etc). This happens by immediately directing JIPs to the proper TS channel, even before they ask for the server pw. (ex. "It's Ebden, where should I go/what's the pw?"...someone designated in Alpha squad ONLY replies "Join Squad B/C/D in TS for further instruction-out"

 

Change is here:

 

Once the last squad contains more than a set squad limit (originals and JIP),

1. DIVIDE the squad at the SL's discretion to create the next logical group (e.g. Charlie becomes Charlie and Delta).

2. The NEW squad will contain a good performer from the originating squad as SL and ALL the new JIP.

3. The squad will take its own TS channel, and only that NEW sl will hold responsibility to help get the JIP's loaded, sorted, in the proper TS channel, and fighting.

4.The ORIGINATING squad leader will inform the CO that he now has an additional squad at his disposal and other pertinent info.

 

Benefits include keeping coms far cleaner with admin stuff, leaving one person (the new SL) with helping get players up to speed and in the game w/o distracting another squad already organized and moving. If that new squad fills, just repeat the above for the next logical group.

 

This method also helps give an added dimension for tasking and SL practice, so that someone already familiar with the developing battlefield can take a fresh squad of JIP (reinforcements, perhaps?) and satisfy some tactical weakness as directed by the CO.

 

In terms of operating TS, it didn't seem to screw things up that badly when the SL would hop out of channel, leaving his second in control, to speak with the CO. This practice avoids having to dick around with channel command. The SLs only need to have a stable enough rig to alt-tab out to TS w/o crashing. (Since patch 1.04 I haven't had a single crash from alt-tab

 

Thoughts?

[PANiC]

didnt make it back in last night sorry, shame i missed out on the verteran mode. Phisher just made a good post there.

 

i think ppl were/are joining on friday and just think the server is exactly the same as every other night, even amazingly after taking over a town with good comms and organisation they still come out with "what we waiting for" during discussion (sorry that winds me up a bit). seems to be getting better each week though.

 

i'd be more than happy to play veteran every week if it is more controlled.

Edited October 3, 2009 by PANiC

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

Phisher glad you enjoyed yourself.

 

Ebden I have learnt to take you with a pinch of salt bud.

 

Tac Dom has had a Team Assignment Room from the outset, where the JIP people are supposed to go and wait for someone to come and get them. Noone does. But hey its ok I know people are impatient to join the game, so I put up with the constant interruptions.

 

Bravo team could not take on JIP people, because of the nature of their mission, which was a stealth approach of the radio tower.

 

Alpha team was meant to be a large force, if I had people stepping up to the plate for squad leader I could have split it into 2 teams, but in any case it was the best team for extra people given its mission which was to draw the enemy towards it.

 

I ran 3 missions last night, the last 2 followed the same plan. The first was fubared as Phisher described.

 

Yesterday was exceptionally screwed up because of the TS problem, which meant I had to employ the solution that has displeased you. But the solution worked with my plan as I said.

 

Normally we start off with 2 squads and create a 3rd if necessary.

 

We will continue to do our best and take your thoughts into consideration.

[GySgt~SPARTA~]

i liked the vet mode it makes everyone thoughfull about actions (well it did from my veiw) in there enviroment and chopper pilots pay attention to there crew cheif i tried to nav with map and found the ground really fast LOL thankfull noone but myself was in the extrction chopper for bravo.. I think we should keep doing tac in vet mode..we all get enough time in the week to learn nav in easy mode (speaking for the regulars and myself) maybe we should chang it up sometimes in the early part of the week and hold a small Nav tac day (just a thought) it couldnt hurt for the newer grunts in the feild....get back on subject......

 

Zeno your plan was great the Idea to take fire with the MG nest in place depeneding on the fire the nest work good....i nothiced alot of fire from the assaulting (Alpha) team as they moved up or was that are snipers..(not sure) it sounded like but it did sound like automatic fire, snipers should be the only ppl doing fire alongside MG nest AT guys should be placed away from MG nest, snipers. AT attracks alot of attention to them they should be in cover.

 

 

Overall alpha insert was off mark pilot error COMS from Zeno only good idea Pilot Needs crewcheif to give him coords into LZ not everyone in the chopper speaking out of terms and heckling the pilot, please we are doing are best to get there in one peace. the hike wasnt bad gave me time to get in the groove and focus on nav. we reach the assigned location to deply MG nest and form a line off the MG nest we did not take fire we observed D-30 and inf. and some armor town was not active morter fire was By IDK (Alpha)BOOM big hit from the D-30 killed half are team the medics did a good job keeping (Apha)alive TY. (Bravo)Observing targets not sure if they was marking on map i was to busy laying down MG fire. Zeno text book orders moving up 1 MG nest holding back to cover fire while the line was going to next waypoint at the downed D-30 Zeno dropped out (LOL NOt again) +Medic+ became active Commander..+Medic+ gave orders to Deploy MG at the D-3o to cover the path for (Bravo) to take out the tower town clear tower down heading to extract....everyone returned safely to alpha FARP.....Orders from Command at FARP stand at deffensive position to cover FARP in all direction incase of attack.

 

P.S.

I"m not a micro manager thats my overveiw Time who needs time in war the best planning is str8ght up nobullS%*t

 

Good job everyone,Commanders Zeno, +Medic+

Edited October 3, 2009 by GySgt~SPARTA~

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

Good post gunny, thanks guys for keeping me on the straight and narrow, I was very tired.

[custard~SPARTA~]

If I'm playing in a locked server Veteran will allways be my favorite as it's bloody hard to complete objectives without everyone working together.

 

I also think there should be a max squad number like real life of 8 or 8 + squad leader any more in the same channel and I can't cope with the information flow and I become less effective and I stop enjoying myelf. (he he)

 

There are not enough stable well written missions out there (Dai-San's is the only one I have played that works) to work on tactically. I would be more than happy practicing with squads of 8 with a balanced loadout between them and being in separate channels even on the public domination server. If you had more than one squad all you need to agree between each squad is which direction they are coming in from, friendly fire happens in real life and no plan in the real life works out exactlly right. I really believe a squad of 8ish players can communicate and fight together effectively even with John Rambo parachuting in and cocking things up.

 

 

[Ebden~SPARTA~]

Ebden I have learnt to take you with a pinch of salt bud.

 

Now that I've seen your reply after we spoke today, I see why you thought I was being sarcastic with my suggestions!

 

So my apology is offered. I had no intention of sounding like an ass, it was just an idea. I had NO idea that it was already the intended plan!! Don't forget, I can only gauge the intensity of the group from my last 2-weeks of play on your servers. I joined Durka and found a satisfying intensity in the tac missions, and I thought the same intensity, scaled relative, fit the tac dom nights. That is why I posted such a detailed interp of one way to proceed for JIP organization.

 

Of course it was already well thought out, TS had been prepped n' all.

 

So please take me with a grain of salt, but make sure we're on the same page as well. My bad 100%.

Edited October 3, 2009 by Ebden

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

Durka should be back on the case soon, so you will be under his expert leadership again.

 

Tac Missions have an extra level of professionalism, because they are smaller groups and everyone is on the same page from the beginning and there is no JIP.

 

Running a tac dom night is a headache, for the organisers/squad leaders, because many join not knowing what to expect and JIP spoils the rythm for existing players, but that is the nature of Tac Dom. Given its inherent shortcomings we try to make the most of it.

 

We would be happy if everyone enjoyed their evening as much as Phisher, I know I did, I hope we will get to the point where you do too.

 

You dont have to apologise to me, we are squared away.

 

As for veteran mode, I like it for all the reasons others have expressed. We will probably leave a passworded server on 24/7 in veteran for those that want to play Tac Dom more often, this will get more people on the same page.

[StrongHarm]

Thank you for accepting me into your server, teams, and tac night. You have a good bunch of people on your servers.

 

Zeno, let me say that for such a soft spoken man you're an excellent and natural leader. You're always patient and stay focused, and that makes a world of difference. When people make snide remarks like that to me I burn up and tell the to get f(*)&^ed. It's admirable.

 

Although I fired only two shots during tac night (two sentries stumbled upon me while I had binocs up), I very much enjoyed myself. As a scout and spotter, I was not distracted by coordinating movement or watching my 6. My observation was that Zeno, as a commander, and everyone in general, progressed in situational awareness and patience as time went by. It was fun to watch from that perspective.

 

My concerns as a spotter/scout were many:

1. Situational Awareness

2. Situational Awareness

3. Situational Awareness

4. Navigation

5. Enemy position and movement

6. Stealth

7. Geographical considerations

8. Cognitive mapping

9. Depth perception

 

1.2.3. Situational awareness was VERY difficult to maintain. I didn't realize how dependent I was on the little red objects on the map, much less my own position marker. While trying to figure out where I was I was trying to figure out where the enemy was, where I was going, where they were going, where my teams were, and how I was going to convey my position and that of the enemy. It was a lot to roll around my brain at once, and I was spoiled by the 'normal' mapping system. I think this VERY ACCURATELY simulated (important word) a real battlefield situation. I didn't know up from down and I was scared shitless that I was giving poor information and effort to my superiors. I think situational awareness guidelines and training would be fabulous for TacTraining.

 

4. Navigation became a real problem without my automated map secretary. I started using *landmarks *GPS coords *triangulation *personal map (not in global channel). I found that using my GPS and finding a clump of trees in it's view, would afford a quick perspective from the main map by looking for that exact 'forest shape'. I found that asking gps coords of my teams would allow me to see where they were at the time. When I got to a high perspective and was spotting for the mortar team, I found that marking three buildings on the map in a triangle, and having them fire smoke on those positions helped me to confirm my perspective of various landmarks in the town.

 

5. Enemy position and movement was difficult to keep track of while I was trying to be stealthy. I had to find a good perspective that afforded me a complete, and concealed, view of the entire town. To do this I had to try several positions and move through enemy patrols. Normally I would check the handy red dots.. but no longer. I had to move in spurts like real life, then stop and listen, then move again. I couldn't run if I wasn't sure of the threat level in the area. It made movement tedious. I learned that once I found an enemy position, I had to mark it on my personal map. It was impossible to keep them all mapped cognitively.

 

6. Stealth was a consideration since I didn't know exactly where I was, the threat level of the area, and situational awareness in general was so low. I learned that running is bad, that if I'm breathing hard I can't hear leaves, and I could find myself on an enemy patrol with very little warning. I ran in small spurts of maybe 50m max, then rested and listened while prone. Also I found that being stealthy while injured is impossible.

 

7. Geographical considerations were important when guiding my teams into decent fire lines. For instance, I directed the team to a barn that overlooked the town, had a huge hayfield in between the hard cover of the barn and the town, and had trees for easy concealment of AT from flanking positions. This turned out to be one shitty position as there was a minor slope from the barn to the town. Although it looked as though the town was visible from the barn from my high perspective, from the barn elevation the slope made visibility low, and the town unviewable. This turned out to be a dangerous position for the team that was counting on me to direct them. In hindsight, I would have worked my way to that position or requested a scout assist me while I functioned as spotter.

 

8. Cognitive mapping was difficult, as previously mentioned, because of veteran mode. I couldn't look at the map, consider the important positions and objectives in my head, then make a map in my head that matched to my tactical map. I knew from people saying 'hmm... I can't see your mark' that map marks made while in direct chat, for instance, doesn't show up on everyone else's map. I started making different colored marks for my own personal notes. The position of others, position of enemies, funny shaped building in town is my landmark for triangulation smoke one... etc.

 

9. It's very difficult to perceive depth with your cartoon head. As I was looking across the city, two buildings that looked like they were close together, were actually 100m apart. It was because I had no view of the intervening space, and because the graphics can't really give you true depth perception. I cheated by holding my spacebar and putting it on the building and jotting down the distance in my personal map. Taking distance on a target, then taking it's cardinal direction with my compass, would allow me to quickly map it extremely accurately.

 

I hope these notes help future spotter/scouts, forgive me for the length. Thanks again for great times.

 

StrongHarm

 

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Sorry for long post, I'll keep it short next time

 

I'm really glad you guys are getting so involved in the TAC DOM nights. I'm really proud. I will be back soon, and I have some new thoughts I want to discuss with our other SPARTA members, and we'll get the kinks worked out. Zeno has been doing a kickass job and if I were a newcomer to the TAC DOM nights, i would heed his posts here. I don't expect us to ever play in normal mode again. Anyways, it's late, my team lost, and I want to get to this before I head off...

 

 

Sorry Durka, my system was overheating and locking up. It read 77 deg when I got back in so I know it was much hotter before the crash.

 

How did it go after the second insert or were you mainly playing catch up to bravo?

Besides terrain and location, why do you think alpha team lost the initiative and had to reinsert?

 

 

We decided to paradrop just behind and to the East of Bravo, on top of a hill, so we could overwatch their movement. Our helicopter was flying much too high for a paradrop and got shot out of the sky, just as the last man ejected from it. All went well, and we were able to take the town.

 

Our initiative was lost as soon as we landed, really. First, we almost landed at the wrong LZ, then when we got out of the right LZ, we had some trouble getting together. My comms were loaded with reports of enemy locations that weren't of use at all, and I was getting cross-talk from Bravo on enemy locations as well. When we did get a danger-close objective, which was a tank flanking us to the right, things were confused and my guys didn't fire. That was mainly my fault as I had them hold fire while I tried to make sense of comms. Our squad movement was the best I've seen it yet. Once we got organized, we moved wonderfully, with Wiskey taking point and Scorpion navigating. Every time I turned around to check the squad, everyone in that group was right were they should've been.

 

For the most part, terrain and location is what got us killed. I tried to fall back, but I was getting cross-talk in the comms and while we were moving further south around a hill, we all got blown up. That's what happens in battle, though. The success/failure of the mission depends solely on the plan at the beginning, and how well the squad was able to change-adapt-and overcome. We changed/adapted, but we didn't overcome because it was too slow. With practice, it'll be working really well.

 

 

 

ALL REGULARS TO THE SERVER - READ BELOW

If there is someone you usually work really well with, or someone you find that you end up following throughout the game, I suggest you pull them aside and team up with them on our TAC DOM nights. Work with each other during the week, and let our commander know before the mission you would like to be paired up in that group. Make sure it's in text and don't clog up comms.

[Lightspeed~SPARTA~]

good thinking Durka.

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Oh, and another thing. We had a player or two do some sort of allah akbar rambo, leroyjenkins ayayayay! thing and ran way off into town past our group, on two occasions that I know of. That can happen on every other night, but it ain't gonna happen on Fridays. You didn't get revived because of it, next time it'll be a kick/ban.

 

 

(don't mean to sound like an ass, but there's no place for that on those nights)

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

Welcome to the forums StrongHarm. Good post and thanks.

 

I really like the idea of forward scouts and marking the map is a true skill in veteran mode. Its a tough role for people and has a lot of pressure. With time and more resources I would use 2 scouts to map out the town before assaulting. but it may take too long. Thankyou for scouting for me on that mission. I may not always use a scout because I tend to do the first mission and we dont have a lot of people, but may use the "stealth" team to scout as best they can.

 

Durka has built a small orienteering mission, you are in the role of a downed pilot/pilotsUnarmed, using the map, compass and the terrain, you have to navigate around, enemy are approaching your crash site and will be searching for you. You have to triangulate off of known landmarks to identify your exact position. For people who want to practice scouting and orienteering I will give you a link to the mission.

 

StrongHarm this is Zeno, signing out.

 

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

BTW if you are interested in developing your landnav skills check out this post by Durka.

 

http://www.legionofspartans.com/forums/ind...?showtopic=4231

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Forward scouts are a great resource. If 2 people paradrop in while the rest of the team is getting organized, it will save a little time.

[StrongHarm]

Ahh.. I noticed that Durka Durka's post was pinned... good stuff

http://www.legionofspartans.com/forums/ind...ost&p=31915

 

And

http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/Prep...-features.shtml

 

Here's a picture from nasa's website that illustrates optical illusions:

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap091004.html

 

I have a field guide for seal snipers from the 90s around here somewhere. There's a great section on forward observation that I'll try to type up soon if I can find it.

 

StrongHarm

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

Its Tac Dom night tonight.

 

I will be there.

[Zeno~SPARTA~]

Another good night guys.

 

Comms was very good even though we were in the same channel. I enjoyed the missions and especially enjoyed sharing the planning with others.

 

Sorry about being a slow to move forward but those D30s have devasted a lot of my plans, so I like them out of the way early.

[PANiC]

was really good tonight

it's pretty sweet when we're all lined up along a ridge and pounding the crap out of the town. the vehicles don't even get close

 

one thing that is weird is that we always get engaged at the LZ by at least one vehicles no matter how far out we are.

 

comms was almost spot on got noisy during the mission when we were trying to get those D30's for a while.

 

ppl seem to be getting into roles and sticking with them. always a satch, or smaw, or medic etc when one was needed

[PANiC]

it was too easy tho, expert mode next week eh?

[Durka-Durka~SPARTA~]

Good work guys, things are getting better. One thing we gotta work on is keeping order once inside the red zone. Once we're in the zone, things tend to fall apart, that's why I try to put a marker on the map to try to keep people on the right path.

 

That first Insertion I did for you guys was lousy. I thought that little hill would provide enough cover. From now on, I'm going to give at least a 500m distance from the zone, so you have time to get out, group up, then move into the objective.

 

Remember that when you start out the mission (town) moving behind someone, you should end the mission in the same spot. GJ guys.

[SkeleTele~SPARTA~]

I missed Tac night again! Dam JOB lol. StrongHarm I like your posts Im looking forward to seeing you on servers I like your point about veteran mode. It brings the game to a new light, you take your time and plan more. It turns Arma from a game to the simulation it was meant for. I wouldn't be opposed in having veteran mode server everyday it would just make you and me and everyone else that plays a better player. Hope to see you next Friday night that is if i don't have to work overtime ;)

Edited October 10, 2009 by SkeleTele~SPARTA~

[Lightspeed~SPARTA~]

yes i dint do much tonight but felt a lot more polished on comms.

 

as Durka said the only part that falls apart are inside the red zone when ppl are running across eachothers paths - i actually got shot in one town bcoz player did not realize i was a friendly.

 

i think once we hit red zone we have to move as cohesive unit and work our way in marking our positions and destinations on map.