Zebb Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 I have taken a quick look at this and although there is a rank system of sorts involved (which I usually hate) it's not too obtrusive and I'm sure it wouldn't affect gameplay too much, the missions involve retaking different towns occupied by the enemy, each time you play you get a random mission with different numbers of enemy troops in one of any number of different towns so I thought it might be a mission we could throw on at any time and not know exactly what our tactics would be each time. I don't know about you guys but I find replaying missions we have done before hard to get into.. Worth looking at? http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=4041 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeno~SPARTA~ Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Ok there were 2 missions in the rar I have put both of them onto server 2 co16_JointCooperations.Sara.pbo co16_JointCooperations_RED.Sara.pbo Title: JointCooperations Mission Version: 1.1 Author: piXel E-mail: mudspike@chello.nl Release date: 24th of October 2008 Game (version): ArmA 1.14 Gametype: COOP Addons required: none Mission Summary: Your mission is to recapture OPFOR occupied territory. Every game renders random 6 from 21 missions, OPFOR has random skills and is of random size. Use Radio and "actions" for: - medkit - show players on the map - call airsupport, HMVV or ammo - recruit soldier - create vehicle Credits: I learned from, used and adjusted many scripts from the ARMA community. Three of them are more or less close to the original. Those are: - USP script / Kronzky - Coop essential pack / -eutf-Myke - Dropit script / Kronzky - Vehiclerespawn / Norrin Special thanks to them and everyone else who makes scripts and maps. ************************************** CHANGELOG version 1.1: - no ammo at weaponbox fixed - parajump height-consistency fixed - removed "TT650C" (sudden deathbug ArmA) - changed from 10 to 16 players - use correct name "[co16] JointCooperations v1.1" - added Spetsnaz version "[co16] JointCooperations RED v1.1" - lowered chance of a baseattack - adjust balance OPFOR mancount - delete dead playerbody to 6 seconds - tweaked endscript - small cosmetic changes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inimigo~SPARTA~ Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 sounds good. I'm in for the usual hours during the week (too late though, but still fun -at least on my side ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebb Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 Thanks Zeno I look forward to giving them a shot.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adder360~SPARTA~ Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 this should be coolies *does a comical dance* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeno~SPARTA~ Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 The variability of the mission is enticing but mission cohesion falls apart once people start dying, which they do because they have to engage from very close range. Then it plays like evo or domination instead of a mission. In reality evo or domination can also be played like missions, its just the mind set. If the ranking can be broken or at least start from Seargent where Acog equiped m4s, silenced m4s and m24s are available we can engage from a safer distance. Also if it can be modded to revive instead of respawn that would also further enhance the game. Just a thought (or 2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebb Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 I like the idea of the randomness of each mission but the default kit loadout does mean that you have to move into a position that is near enough to the enemy (at least 200 metres I would suggest) but also provides you with a decent amount of cover, either by being behind an object or by using the contours of the ground to let you hit any target you need to but then give you the ability to withdraw into another fire position for your next target. A couple of points I would like to bring up for discussion: Once the number of people killed has reached a point that the mission is no longer viable then that should be the end of the mission, there should not be any spawn back at base and try to rejoin the rest of the team because it usually involves endangering the guys who are already in position and trying to complete their tasks by exposing their position or we end up with guys in ones and twos all over the objective who inevitably get killed over and over again, once it has been decided by the guys who have not yet been killed that the objective cannot be taken by the number that are left then the mission should be reset and a new one started. Guys, if you are on the flank of any squad formation your priority has to be your flank, either left or right depending on which side is exposed to us, everyone should have an arc of fire that overlaps the guy either side of you, even if you have to check in with the person to each side of you to confirm landmarks that you can both see and so that you know what area you are covering, once anyone on the flanks has been taken out the whole team is now in danger of being flanked and attacked on two sides and the advantage has moved to the enemy, most of the time it ends up in a battle for survival and the objective has to become the secondary consideration. My last whine for the day, when we are in two squads we will have to drop into the two TS channels again because people are still talking over each other on both teams which makes communication pretty hard, and if you need to pass something please keep it short and to the point some people are still rambling away on comms as if it was Jackanory (our US guys may have to look that one up). Feedback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TargetPractice Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 The variability of the mission is enticing but mission cohesion falls apart once people start dying, which they do because they have to engage from very close range. If the ranking can be broken or at least start from Seargent where Acog equiped m4s, silenced m4s and m24s are available we can engage from a safer distance. Also if it can be modded to revive instead of respawn that would also further enhance the game. Agree with all of that. Once the number of people killed has reached a point that the mission is no longer viable then that should be the end of the mission, there should not be any spawn back at base and try to rejoin the rest of the team Agree My last whine for the day, when we are in two squads we will have to drop into the two TS channels again because people are still talking over each other on both teams which makes communication pretty hard, and if you need to pass something please keep it short and to the point some people are still rambling away on comms as if it was Jackanory (our US guys may have to look that one up). Agree I'm new to Arma and new to these forums too but I've taken part in a few missions this week and it's clear that there are some different preferences in the playing styles of some of the regulars. Some prefer a more methodical approach and some prefer a more direct approach. I don't know which, if either, is better - I suspect each has its benefits - but it does create a tension in-game if some players are following one approach and others are following a different approach. There was a cohesiveness to the play yesterday as we all got into position prior to the first engagement but after that it did seem very much a case of people (including myself I'll admit) doing what they felt best, whether singly or in pairs rather than operating under the instruction of a leader, be that Zebb or Zeno. It didn't feel to me to be very tactical or very team-oriented in the sense that I would have expected. Were my expectations misguided? Is this how group play usually pans out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebb Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 To be honest Target I have noticed that 99% of the missions start out pretty well, everyone follows the task they are given and generally now people don't engage the enemy until everyone is in position, the problems begin as soon as someone is killed. The chatter on the comms goes through the roof, any cohesive reaction to the threat appears hard to coordinate and people start to do their own thing which generally ends up with more deaths until we are too small a squad to complete the objective. We have tried to organise emergency RVP's, fire and movement drills etc etc which everyone agrees would be good but once in a game they become hard to implement so any cohesion we had at the beginning goes out the window and we are usually left with a few players hanging in the breeze trying to regroup and see what they can do. Observation is a big issue, if we can see the enemy before they can see us then we stand a better chance once we engage them, now I know that sounds like an obvious statement but how many times have we had guys killed by an enemy almost right under our noses because people didn't take long enough to recce the target area first? there will always be some enemy a long way off who get a lucky shot due to the limitations of the game but if we can cut down the silly deaths on our team we would do better, there should be one revive on any mission to allow for some stupid death, such as being run over by a teamate at the spawn etc but that's it, once the mission has started if you die you are out, both in game and on comms, obviously you can wait for the start of the next mission and just watch and listen to the people left but you can't take part. As for the two methods you mentioned Target "methodical" and "direct" I guess I fall into the methodical approach most of the time but there are times when the direct approach is needed once the enemy is alerted and that's when I bring that into play, last night I asked Zeno to move into a position to give us a good crossfire over the enemy town but from what I have heard the terrain was not really suitable so I think you guys were at a disadvantage. If you are given an request to do something but due to some constraint or other you feel that it is not possible then as the leader on the ground you have to make a decision to move to another spot that affords you the protection you need while still being able to complete the missions as best you can, I would rather take longer longer to clear an objective with everyone coming out alive than lose guys because they are in an exposed position because you were told to go there, the person on the ground has to take the command decision whether it is practical or not. The position we took up wasn't great but it was as good as we could get, but we pulled back after the first contact to another ridge because we knew we were exposed, you have to make the best of what you have available, it's never going to be perfect every time. Give it a few more games before you make up your mind Target last was really just a test run for the new missions to see how they played and if we liked them so it was not a true reflection of our normal game, but as always any ideas or feedback after each mission are welcome.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeno~SPARTA~ Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 We are testing a new mode, which if we can get the hang of it will give us huge mission variety all in game, no more time wasted deciding which mission to do. Speaking for myself, my error was that I failed to pull my team back after the initial engagement. I also did not plan an exit from our ambush position. Our initial postion would have been fine but it was 300+ (guessing) metres away. from there we could have fallen back over the hill and moved safely to a new position. In order to have some chance of succesfully hitting targets from cover we moved to less than 100metres. I should have immediately pulled back to the next wooded area, but we received fire pretty quickly from the right then I was taken out from in front whilst looking to the right. Error number 2 I should have assigned seperate fields of fire to be employed after the initial engagement. So the initial execution was spot on but I am crap (and uncomfortable) at close range. We can split channels and tighten up comms, but that will not overcome lack of experience. I am always willing to step up if a leader is needed and accept the responisibilty for failure, but I need more training. I still think we should be able to form squads with a reasonable weapon selection and 7 taking on 50+ with close range weapons is beyond my ability. We can easily deal with comms, we can put more experienced players into each squad, we can say that if you are killed you wait in base, when the numbers fall we abandon the mission reform and try again. I would prefer revive, I would prefer we start at least as seargents. We are just sharing thoughts, thats not whining. I have no ego, this is a game but I would like to improve, I am sure thats the case for everyone. Lets try it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebb Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 I haven't had time to go through all of the mission files yet but I have tweaked this version to allow the full "Captains" weapons in the ammo box now so that although you spawn as a Corporal you can grab any weapon currently allowed in the mission, obviously we could always add any other weapons of kits we want but for now at least you get an acog or m24 if you so desire. Maybe we could try the next mission using this one instead? http://files.filefront.com/jointcoops+vZeb...;/fileinfo.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeno~SPARTA~ Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Great thanks, I have installed these onto server 1, server 2 retains the originals. The names have stayed the same, I am worried that htis may cause problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebb Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 (edited) Yes mate I only renamed it so you would know which version you have, I knew you would know what to do with it... Btw, one thing I did notice is that there were no HE 203 rounds in the crate, I guess he must have missed them out but if people want them it wouldn't take two minutes to drop some in, lets see if we want to keep this mission first and then we can tweak it to suit ourselves later.. Edited October 27, 2008 by Zebb~SPARTA~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaiSan Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Unfortunately this game has a few flaws that make it far from the ideal tactical shooter it could be and this can lead to a lot of the 'Incidents' that we see happen. One is the cover. What appears to us as cover is not actually cover to the AI. A bush that blocks our view of an enemy is invisible to them and leads to many WTF type deaths either when moving into position or after an engagement starts. (this can be semi cured by the foliage mod) Sorry, not sure of the name. Two is the damn map. This is the buggiest heap of shite i have ever encountered in any game. This should be an invaluable tool for any Tactical shooter to allow you to keep track of squad and team mates positions. Most people who have played tactical shooters for any length of time spend almost 50% of their time in the map making sure formations and flanks are being covered. Unfortunately in this game the map is very rarely correct, your team mates can show up infront when they are actually behind you. If you are lucky enough to have someone showing on the map it is rare they are named and if they are you cant read it cos it is overlaid with other text. Half the team can see SOME of the others but not all. It really is pretty useless. I also think we should give the 'Whisper' system a try as this has always worked better in my opinion that the CHANNEL COMMANDER option. My problem with the CC option is that while the CC's are conferring the rest of the squads are left out in the cold and missing possible vital info that has to be relayed back to them by the CC. This causes delays and possibly time critical info to be missed or forgotten. Also if the CC dies then he may not see something vital that needs to be past on. On the other hand, using the 'Whisper' your team mates are on your whisper key so you can confer freely without you bleeding over another squads comms, but the two Team Leaders confer using the Global chat key which only they use. Everyone can hear this and hear useful info without it needing to be relayed and also if the TL dies then someone else can just use the global key to take over either temporarily or if no revive or respawn then permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebb Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 All good points. Dai, I use my map mainly to check my direction to a target and to navigate around the map, I have all my troop map markers turned off (including enemies) because they are so inaccurate I prefer to keep an eye on my teamates visually or by requesting a grid reference, maybe that's why I seem to be taking longer than some people getting into positions or moving around because if I don't see it visually as far as I am concerned it doesn't exist. Cover is always going to be an issue and that's why egress routes and rvp's are so important because you can be sure the enemy is going to be making a bee line for you as soon as you open fire (another good reason not to engage a target unless you can be sure of a hit and that no other enemy elements are near you) but if you know where you are going to withdraw to to before re-engaging it becomes more of a planned retreat instead of a disorganised scramble. As for the comms, whatever method we decide on people will have to keep their natter down because the last time we tried split channels the noise of people chattering away made it almost impossible to liaise with the other team commander or pass on any important information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeno~SPARTA~ Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I failed again last night. I had the 107 and could easily see you guys and the front and side approach. When Custard died I realised I should have been covering those approaches, I'll get it right in the end. On another note I got a graphics lock up twice last night, I rarely see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custard~SPARTA~ Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I had graphics lock ups three times in two weeks, not new drivers and with XP I got shot from my front because of carelessness mate the next death was at same point but from behind me that was a different village to attack with all those close in high hills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I have never had any lock-ups. I have had sudden moments of low frame rates that have gotten me killed. I have crashed to the desk top twice since I started playing arma few weeks ago. My system is old but stable in the game. I wonder if the combination of the aging code in Arma and newer hardware/drivers might be causing the crashes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TargetPractice Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Give it a few more games before you make up your mind Target last was really just a test run for the new missions to see how they played and if we liked them so it was not a true reflection of our normal game, but as always any ideas or feedback after each mission are welcome.. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed the experience and I'll be back in tonight assuming people are on. Maybe I have a different perspective as a new player in wanting someone to be taking control and giving instruction that I can follow as I become more familiar with Arma and it's quirks. Hope to see some of you back online this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custard~SPARTA~ Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed the experience and I'll be back in tonight assuming people are on. Maybe I have a different perspective as a new player in wanting someone to be taking control and giving instruction that I can follow as I become more familiar with Arma and it's quirks. Hope to see some of you back online this evening. You are not alone I find it much easier if somebody gives instructions it gives me a sense of comfort probably false lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeno~SPARTA~ Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I got shot from my front because of carelessness mate the next death was at same point but from behind me that was a different village to attack with all those close in high hills I still should have covered you I was in a perfect position and almost unassailable. At the very leaast I should have warned of incoming targets. This just highlights a lack of tactical gaming experience (mine). But I shall soldier on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebb Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 We were just unlucky on that last mission because the enemy were hemmed into that town with nowhere to go and if Zeno hadn't had his computer crashes we probably could have completed that one. The problem we are having generally is that we can get into position normally but we then lose players in key positions before we open fire leaving the rest of the squad isolated and easy pickings for the enemy, if we are only opening up from one end of a town instead from as many different directions as we can then it is easy for them to pick out where the fire is coming from and out flank us, if we can keep 2 or 3 fireteams alive long enough then when we engage them they will have to split their forces to take us out which will give us a better chance, especially if each team can support the other one with mutual crossfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeno~SPARTA~ Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I have never found such a sweet spot for observing, shooting and directing fire. I dont even know if you can get there without parachuting in. That is also the first time I have had a mission in that town but I will remember the mountain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeno~SPARTA~ Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I have put the joint coop on server 2 as well, server 2 has durgs vegetation fix, so you can use bushes for cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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