11 year old girl with a rifle.

[MedicSN6]

She field strips and rebuilds, with a function check, and AR-15 in 53 seconds.

 

Way to go!

 

If I have a daughter, I want her to be able to do this when she is 11 too.

http://www.dailyhaha.com/_vids/11_year_old_rifle_girl.htm

[Watchman~SPARTA~]

And the merit in teaching an 11 year old girl that is what exactly???

 

You decry the fact that kids rampage around schools killing people yet parents are teaching skills like this. The only time she is ever likely to need to know this is if she chooses to join the military.

 

World gone mad?????

[MedicSN6]

Actually, the exact opposite. If her father took the time to teach her the skill involved in maintaining a rifle like the one in the video, the chances that he taught her the respect of said weapon are very high. Its the kids who's parents ignore them and leave them to their own imagination that could one day snap and go on your so called rampage.

If we apply your logic to martial arts, it is flawed there as well. When will a kid need to roundhouse kick someone?

The medium is not the important thing in all of this, it is the skill involved, the respect earned and given, and the feeling accomplishment the kid has.

 

I would much rather have my kid in a class with 25 of these kinds of kids than have even one neglected kid with horrible parents any day.

 

Firearms arent the problem.

 

 

[NoScream~SPARTA~]

I have to say, there should be an age where people/ kids are introduced to this sort of thing and not earlier, the point being, if you use it, then you become totally responsible for your actions. But can that be said for children? no, because the law treats them different, QED.

 

The UK has no legal gun culture and we appreciate it, knowing anyone can hold a weapon made for killing another (specifically) scares me. Where do you draw the line......

 

I wonder if here dad will be so happy if she brings home a 16yr old boyfriend at 11?

Same difference to me, things little girls shouldn't be playing with at that age.

 

 

Teach a kid to drive your car, kid takes car, kills another in a road accident, who is responsible?

A car/ vehicle is a weapon too but there is a law that stops kids using them and learning to use a car

is the first step...

 

two examples.

 

[custard~SPARTA~]

I was taught to use a shotgun/12 guage @ 13 by my dad for shooting clay pidgeon and rabbits etc

 

and a Lee Enfield .303 at 13 at school because I was in the Combined Cadet Force.

 

At 14 I field stripped and rebuilt a Bren gun in front of a Brigadeir.

 

I was taught about firearms by my Dad, I think I have a healthy respect for them because of that teaching. It's one of the very few things I learnt from him I will never forget and because of the stupid gun laws in our great country I will never be able to pass that on to my children , I regret that.

 

My Mum and my favorite Aunty were in Hungerford whilst the atrocity took place, My Dad, one of my brothers and I shat bricks waiting (b4 mobiles) for them to come home. What happened in Hungerford and Dunblane was awfull but the gun laws passed afterwards are stupid. How many kids are dead cos of knives or illegally held firearms since?

[custard~SPARTA~]

I can kill a person/persons with my car drunk/sober QED?

 

Do we ban cars, planes, trains or climbing trees?

[NoScream~SPARTA~]

My point is not about the object/ item that is taught to a person, but the age which that

person excepts full responsibility for using that item & any harm to others through it.

 

If you accept respectability at 12yrs old for the shotgun and it's use at that age then you must accept

responsibility for actions by you with that item to others, including harm, is my point.

 

 

 

If you take a car because you know how to use it, and you kill someone, then you should take full

responsibility for it, no one else, or do you blame the parents?

 

It's a case of being responsible for the use of an item through the knowledge of use, is the point I'm making.

 

IF at 12 you get in a car, not knowing how to drive or fully understanding the dangers and you kill, you could

be deemed not fully responsible for the consequences. The problem is the law protects kids against those

responsibilities, but does nothing to counter the action of adults teaching kids to use such dangerous things.

 

Anything could be made to be dangerous but not everything was specifically made to kill, like a gun.

It was made with one purpose, to kill, guns & kids DO NOT MIX. A motor car/vehicle is dangerous too

but it was not made as a killing object, but it can kill.

 

 

 

[Cylawyer~SPARTA~]

I learned to shoot between 11 and 12 years of age and was given my Dad's .22 caliber Marlin tubular loading bolt action varmint rifle. I began hunting, I learned to clean it properly and to break it down (the bolt and pin). All of these skills and having a family (although it was my Dad's gun it was others in the family that taught me to shoot and care for the rifle, my Dad ignored such things which is why I got the gun given to me, he was never into it) who cared enough to teach me the proper way to handle a weapon gave me a proper respect for it as a tool.

 

The time family spend teaching youngsters can be applied to any medium as Medic says, but the medium of weapons (if properly done) provides more than just bonding, it gives skills that can last a lifetime and can save lives (hunting and self-defense) if it is ever needed.

 

This is a fine thing to see a youngster this age with this skill and respect for a weapon.

[custard~SPARTA~]

You're right about the responsibility thing Viii I guess we will have to agree to disagree at what age it is ok to teach kids about firearms.

 

In fairness my first lessons about guns were all about what can go wrong and how dangerous they are, my Dads youngest brother lost a friend because he tried climbing over a gate with his shotgun loaded and closed I was never allowed to forget that.

[MedicSN6]

Wow. I really didnt see a discussion like this coming forth from my initial post.

 

I think we are all products of our environment. That being said, if a child has a healthy understanding of a subject, they will, in turn, have better understanding of that subject as an adult.

 

Humans learn morality and right from wrong at an early age, it is ultimately the parents responsibility to instill these values into their children. It is up to the parents to choose what is important, what isn't and why.

 

This is merely an example of one of those things.

Edited September 30, 2008 by Medic~SPARTA~

[NoScream~SPARTA~]

Recently two kids 10 & 9 yr old in the UK murdered a 2 year old, because they were 10 they were under

the legal age of responsibility and could not be prosecuted. Of course that has now changes, UK law now

states you can be prosecuted for Murder down to 8 years of age.

 

 

Anyway, I'm not disagreeing with kids learning guns, sex or anything else, I'm just pointing out

they have to be LEGALLY responsible as well as personally responsible.

 

 

 

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[Watchman~SPARTA~]

I wondered what you meant when you said recently, then I saw the film. 15 years ago but the Bulger case was major news.

What's worse is the two kids that did this were recently (last 2-3yrs ?) released given new identities and shipped off to begin new lives.

When they should have been taken out and beaten to death with a piece of 2x4!

Classic example of why the British legal system is completely shot!

[MedicSN6]

That is a very sad story. Those events are terrible. The boys should not have been let out of jail. Or given new identities. They needed to live with what they did and not get a 'do-over' at life.

 

The parents of the boys should have been held responsible as well as the boys themselves. The parents are legally responsible for the actions and in-actions of their children.

 

In the U.S., in some state's counties, even a child's truancy is in the hands of the parent. A parent can face fines and even jail time for not making their child attend school they are enrolled in. The parents in this case should be ashamed and even punished for their child's actions. I would have no problem. That parent failed his or her own kid and especially the 2 year old that died.

 

BUT, we need to keep this in a world perspective. This happens in the US as well, and the public outcry is about the same. Take the Jean Benet case for example. Or the current Caylee (sp?) murder.

 

How many children are murdered every day by an adult? So many. And these cases barely make state level news let alone national news. What made your example different and what raises it above 'normal' is the fact that two children, 9 and 10, did it. I wage to argue that it isn't the fact the he was murdered that has people in stupor. It is the how, and 'who done it' factor and the legal precedent that the case set that has people talking and emoting.

 

Thousands of people die every day and we as humans don't blink an eye. We even exemplify death in our entertainment and advertising. I mean look at the types of games we SPARTANS willingly choose to play. It is truly sad that people are desensitized to death until a truly heinous murder or taking of a life is brought to our attention. Even more so when it is a child or a young adult.

 

Dont get me wrong at all, I in no way am making an argument that this mindset is okay. I am merely stating a truth.

 

Clint

 

 

[custard~SPARTA~]

I get really get cross when discussing gun law in the UK because I have such a minority view here and I don't handle that very well at least you get a proper debate in these forums.

 

I'm a bit medieval when it comes to crime and punishment so I won't go there and as a parent of a 12 year old and a 10 year old if they do something wrong it's my fault.