Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) I came across this video of a Russian IL-76 taking off in Australia. Why these pilots would calculate their max gross weight so close to the maximum threshold for conditions that day escapes me. This aircraft is very close to never getting off the ground and it came close to killing them. The Tower personnel that posted this video stated that most large jumbo jets use about 2/3 of this runway for takeoff. Edited February 18, 2016 by Zathrus~SPARTA~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custard~SPARTA~ Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cylawyer~SPARTA~ Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I am sure they knew exactly how much runway it was going to take as they nearly drove into the grass at the end of the runway as they turned around for take-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) um... he drove in the grass off the other end also... This pilot ran out of runway long before the aircraft was ready to fly. You see him gently bump it up as it goes off the end of the runway, that was the pilot trying to get it "on top", it luckily did get on top of the air cushion caused by "ground effects". A decent pilot can get an aircraft onto its ground effects cushion to help it accelerate since there is less drag, but... this pilot ran out of runway long before that aircraft would climb and it is not flying yet until it can climb. He is very lucky there were no trees in the way, he needed quite a bit more runway.... which is why the tower guy never stopped filming. This is also why you hear the other tower operator ask; "Is he climbing yet?" because they knew if he could not get that aircraft to pull up off of it's ground effects cushion, he was going to start hitting things fairly soon. it did finally start climbing, but he had left the runway long before that point. He used a big field and ground effects to extend the length of the take off roll, no pilot would ever do that intentionally. The Tower personnel knew how close this was to ending very badly. Edited February 18, 2016 by Zathrus~SPARTA~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cylawyer~SPARTA~ Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I've seen similar takeoffs on shorter fields with certain variants of C-130s. The pilots there knew what they were doing, but they had to deal with all the runway they had available even though that aircraft only needs 60% of a normal runway to get off the ground. However, when the runway you are working with is only 50-60% of a normal runway... Now, as I said above, a C-130 needs very little runway with a normal load, but was often used to land on grass airstrips in remote locations or sometimes just a flat area of ground that wasn't a runway at all. Still, perhaps not the best example of a plane needing to use a lot of the available runway, since usually it didn't need hardly any at all and those examples that I have seen could hardly be called runways! lol Here is a recent video showing a lot of runway being used, but due to the angle I can't tell just how close he was to the end: Check out the extremes it could do on this site: http://www.military.com/video/aircraft/military-aircraft/c-130-performs-extreme-demo/1336078645001 Some C-130s were sometimes equipped with rocket pods that would assist in take-off (and in landing) so that the runway didn't have to be very long at all. Assault take-off and landings with an C-130 are quite the sight to see. They've even been known to land and take off from a carrier (at least in trials). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) yes, you are correct that these techniques are used on purpose. I flew with bush pilots off and on for 6 years in Africa. But these are very carefully calculated take-offs and landings. In spite of how it looks, there is still a little safety margin. Personally I believe the pilots of this IL-76 completely miscalculated their max gross weight. It appears they needed almost an additional 1000 feet to achieve a speed where this aircraft would start flying. Typically the mistake is in the barometric pressure, temp and humidity of the airport they are leaving. All three combine to determine what the aircraft needs to get airborne. I feel this video records a wreck that the pilot managed to avoid... with luck and skill combined. Sane pilots never rely on luck in the equation for success. An aircraft can carry far more weight in 30F degree weather and 20% humidity than it can when it is 95 degrees F and 90% humidity due to air density differences. Most take-off crashes are caused by a miscalculation of the flight envelope or mechanical failures. In the video below, this experienced pilot has done his calculations and the calculations say... his high performance aircraft can take off from this high altitude short runway... barely. So he tries... and scares the crap out of himself and co-pilot. He is riding the stall point for about one hundred feet after the runway. This is why any sane pilot I have every flown with adds a 25% ~ 50% margin to their flight envelope for take off. This gives them the opportunity to actually survive if something goes wrong. In the Video above, this pilot discovered how close the flight envelope calculations were on this aircraft. It almost cost him his aircraft and possibly his life. At the very least, these Russian pilots are not providing themselves any margin at all. Because of real life never totally duplicating what is on paper, most pilots give themselves a 25% to 50% margin for takeoff. This accounts for errors in instruments, etc. Edited February 19, 2016 by Zathrus~SPARTA~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cylawyer~SPARTA~ Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 ^^^^ I approve this message! ^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 I really like this line in that last video I posted. I think it is probably the best summary of what kills many pilots historically. Experience is a difficult teacher, because she gives the test first, and the lesson afterward and not all lessons in aviation are survivable. This is a saying anyone pushing the envelope of anything needs to keep in their minds at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) I also just saw this video, which also gives a very good summary of what can go wrong if no safety margins are used. Amazingly, this aircraft was able to get off the ground... but could not maintain flight, he could not produce enough thrust to get enough speed for lift off of the wings. His only choice, was to just try to keep it airborne as long as he could.... knowing it was slowly losing altitude. Another video that proves: "Assumptions are the mother of all fuck ups" Edited February 19, 2016 by Zathrus~SPARTA~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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