Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 well I have to say, the "Endeavor" science ship is enormous.... and very versatile. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14972-Research-Unbound-The-MISC-Endeavor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaiSan Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Standalone-Ships/Endeavor-Master-Set-LTI I'll take two please... ffs they are taking the piss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cylawyer~SPARTA~ Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Basic ship is $350.00 pledge, but the beast with all the gadgets is $900.00. Remember, like all ships, this one is to be available in game after release for in-game credits. How long that will take you to get enough credits, I dunno, but would expect it to take some effort and time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luggage~SPARTA~ Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 They are taking the piss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 well... its going to need significant protection when it is out and about. This ship with all those domes and different modules is the perfect ship for pirates to steal... and go park somewhere to use as a base. It is going to be a very tempting target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaiSan Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 With the money they have amassed so far they need to stop this bullshit. Selling 'Ghost' ships for this sort of money is going to lose them a LOT of goodwill but then hey, the sort of money they have already who needs goodwill huh! Cy, that argument doesn't wash tbh mate, that is their excuse against the PTW crowd but how long do you honestly think it would take, in game, to amass enough money to buy a $350 dollar ship? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringle~SPARTA~ Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 ... but how long do you honestly think it would take, in game, to amass enough money to buy a $350 dollar ship? It better take a damn long time for it's equivalent worth to be $350 cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) in his past games, a capital ship class took forever to get. It required you to build your cargo capacity to massive cargo trains. You had to run those massive cargo trains for a very long time on lucrative routes. They are special, and have never been easy to obtain. I think he has reflected that view with its price. It should be expensive as hell if he decides to sell any at all... which he has. If it were cheap to get all these big ships, I would have a solar system full of them. They have never been cheap... since this has started. I think that is correct for this class of ship. You can get aggravated if you want... but I look at it as an extension of what these ships are in game... very special.... with few running around. Edited October 1, 2015 by Zathrus~SPARTA~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luggage~SPARTA~ Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 The confusion here is this. Why are they diverting their own attention from the core responsibility of getting the game out the door by pouring effort into designing yet another new ship, which they would like people to pay money for, when they have not delivered against the £90million they already have and met their timescales? November 2014 has been and gone. The revised dates for this year have passed by. The price of the ship is actually irrelevant to me, it is the fact that they are attempting to generate more money, when they have more than enough for now. I want the game to succeed, but I think that they need to knuckle down now and deliver more than disjointed sandboxes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) I agree with that ^^^^^^^ But I don't think this ship is a diversion necessarily. I believe this is them finishing up earlier modules. If you check the module map, there is method to the madness... I also think them deciding to convert the crytek engine to 64 bit (it does not exist in 64bit) is another major effort in the background. Luckily, they have some of the coders who have written a lot of the crytek engine code. I also have to say I agree with them converting it to 64bit. Edited October 1, 2015 by Zathrus~SPARTA~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaiSan Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I must agree with Luggs, ANYONE not working on getting the game released atm is surplus to requirements and this is just revenue generation for it's own sake. By all means churn out a ship a day after release but this is money-grabbing in the extreme and and not helping the push for release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cylawyer~SPARTA~ Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I disagree wholeheartedly with the assertion that on a AAA title it should be out in less than three years. No AAA title has done that as far as I am aware. Many take 3 to 5 years. This project started it's kickstarter funding in October 2012, but didn't have a development facility up and running until March 2013. Remember though a AAA studio title is usually developed by a studio that already exists, is up and running and fully staffed. It is true that they are almost a year over their initial hoped release of two years, but that was for a game that was initially much less than what is now being developed and within 6 months or less I am betting we see SQ 42 first episode released and within a couple of months we will likely see the baby PU released. That doesn't mean that criticism isn't warranted for missing some targeted goals. However, I would like to see it successful in implementing its wide ranging goals. If you follow it closely enough to actually play some of the modules that are currently released, you can see the progress that is being made and I suspect it will accelerate from this point as many of the basic building blocks are finally falling into place. Citizen Con is coming up (in Manchester BTW) and I am hopeful for some impressive information to come out at that. Because I am wanting to see it succeed in its wider ambition, I am glad that I pledged. My pledge is being put to good use and if anyone isn't interested in dropping the kind of pledge money for a ship like Endeavor, then they shouldn't. After all, it is a pledge to assist in the development/completion of the game, not a real purchase. Dai, you are correct in that it will take a long time "in game, to amass enough money to buy a $350 dollar ship?" that was my point. It was also my point that it can be done in game without pledging. However, I understand how some people don't like a game that looks like Pay To Win, so I cannot fault you there. I for one am not bothered by it. I have two pledges and unless I fall into some money somewhere, there won't be another from me because I cannot afford it and I would rather earn it in game. PTW players never bother me in any games because they don't have the satisfaction of the in game sweat I have put out to get to the same point. So, whether this amounts to a true PTW game or not in the end doesn't matter to me. I think those PTW players are missing out on a lot of fun getting there the old fashioned way. I hope any of you who have pledged stay the course in your interest even if you aren't over the top with it, because I think you will be pleased with the end result. Also, don't buy-in to the Derek Smart bullshit. He and his cohorts are agitators who serves no purpose but to advance his own agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalXen~SPARTA~ Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Just waiting for the day I can cruise my Orion up to one of these and fire the mining laser cannon on it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cylawyer~SPARTA~ Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 lol Kal! I can see that happening a lot. There will be some pissed off Endeavor owners. I suppose they will have to do as the old Cherokee Chief in The Outlaw Jose Wales said, "[They] will endeavor to persevere"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custard~SPARTA~ Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Derek Smart is a red herring that should be ignored this doesn't get away from the fact that however awesome content like the Endeavor is for too many investors this is a distraction and not what they are looking for, nobody posting on this forum is a knob-head but you can feel the frustration even in these few posts it is palpable. @ Cy I agree with quite a bit of your post regarding PTW etc but there is a sense of fanbois underneath mate. You don't need to defend this it is understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cylawyer~SPARTA~ Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Just FYI, the Endeavor had been tagged to be produced 11 months ago. It was a stretch goal for $57 million: 11/10/2014 $57,000,000 $57,000,000READ CHAIRMAN'S LETTER MISC Endeavor-class Research Platform – The MISC Endeavor is the company’s most prestigious ship: a dedicated research platform capable of carrying a dozen different space science packages, running the gamut from advanced long-range scanners for jump point identification to additional shielding for near-stellar corona research. Externally, the Endeavor is dotted with sensor hardpoints; internally, the main compartment is centered on a large research laboratory which can be configured for use by a wide range of scientific disciplines. The Endeavor’s main compartment is modular, allowing an alternate configuration as a Hope-class floating hospital. This variant is employed by the UEE and other organizations as battlefield support, capable of getting Marines and pilots back to the battle as quickly as possible! When outfitted as a hospital, the Endeavor’s docking bay is capable of maintaining a single Cutlass Red ambulance. The Endeavor has also found its way into the service of less reputable organizations, where it can has been modified for everything from narcotics production to black market surgery. ACCOMPLISHED In June 2014, it was put to a fan vote as to whether to do away with stretch goals or to keep them. It was contemplated by the developers that they needed to shut down the goals and work on finishing what they had planned out already, but they left it to a vote and the voters said to keep the goals and new items coming so the stretch goals continued. However, they stopped stretch goals at $65 Million, in part because Chris Roberts realized (or someone, maybe his brother, finally knocked it into his head) that expanding the game with stretch goals needed to stop for awhile so that they could catch up and get everything done that had been promised. See the following excerpt from a "Letter from the Chairman" dated December 6th 2014: "Of course, $65 million isn’t the only milestone we need to discuss in this letter. Starting with $66 million, I want to start focusing everyone on the level of detail and immersion that everyone’s support is enabling. So instead of always having a feature or a reward I want to share a deeper view into an element of the design that has been enabled by your continuing support. This time around, we’re going to tell you about Star Citizen’s multi-crew ship seat actions. With the release of the Carrack, there has been a lot of discussion about how ships can be flown solo, whether or not they need a crew… and there have been a lot of questions as to how any of that will even work. You can read on below to find out the answers to those questions and more. (This letter’s design update was put together with the team here in the UK, who are also currently looking forward to the multi-crew ship features for Arena Commander 2.0) This doesn’t mean we won’t still occasionally reward backers with in-game content (flair, UEC, ship upgrades and more types to come!) or propose new ship types to celebrate major milestones but I would like the focus to be more about the amazing game that you are all enabling rather than the amounts we have raised. The real story is that with a community and the team sharing such a passion for making something special, with all of your continued support we have an opportunity to make history. As always, thank you for making all of this possible. It’s an honor to be at the head of development of a game that already means so much to such an excellent group of backers. You’ve earned your Citizenship! Finally: please sound off in the comments section: does this new system work for you? We WILL be listening! — Chris Roberts" The release of this ship art for the Endeavor is a step in the development of that ship and catching up on what has been promised. Making it available for pledge packaging is a part of the promise, but the pricing is what it is because the ship is near the scale of the Idris. The pledge availability of the ship allows those who voted on it as a stretch goal almost a year ago the opportunity to receive it as a package if they want to and can afford to, but as Chris Roberts always says, "Remember: we are offering this pledge ship to help fund Star Citizen’s development. The funding generated by sales such as this is what allows us to include deeper, non-combat oriented features in the Star Citizen world. Concept ships will be available for in-game credits in the final universe, and they are not required to start the game. Additionally, please note that the Endeavor will be entering the ship pipeline now, it will ultimately be released after other concept ships have been completed. Endeavor pods may come online at different times, as game mechanics to support them are completed. All decorative ‘flare’ items will also be available to acquire in the finished game world. The goal is to make additional ships available that give players a different experience rather than a particular advantage when the persistent universe launches. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cylawyer~SPARTA~ Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 BTW Custard, I prefer the term "Informed" over "Fanbois", but I can live with either title! I'm just actually following the development very closely, so I know more about what's been going on than the average casual observer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Just FYI, the Endeavor had been tagged to be produced 11 months ago. It was a stretch goal for $57 million: 11/10/2014 $57,000,000 $57,000,000READ CHAIRMAN'S LETTER MISC Endeavor-class Research Platform – The MISC Endeavor is the company’s most prestigious ship: a dedicated research platform capable of carrying a dozen different space science packages, running the gamut from advanced long-range scanners for jump point identification to additional shielding for near-stellar corona research. Externally, the Endeavor is dotted with sensor hardpoints; internally, the main compartment is centered on a large research laboratory which can be configured for use by a wide range of scientific disciplines. The Endeavor’s main compartment is modular, allowing an alternate configuration as a Hope-class floating hospital. This variant is employed by the UEE and other organizations as battlefield support, capable of getting Marines and pilots back to the battle as quickly as possible! When outfitted as a hospital, the Endeavor’s docking bay is capable of maintaining a single Cutlass Red ambulance. The Endeavor has also found its way into the service of less reputable organizations, where it can has been modified for everything from narcotics production to black market surgery. ACCOMPLISHED This was my point earlier... if people would just go look at the module map... they would see they are simply following the engineering plan they originally built. Chris used the "stretch goal" system to build a very well thought out engineering plan. If you look at the stretch goal modules in their entirety, you can see the well thought out plan. NOT as a fanbois but as an Engineer, I greatly appreciate the intelligence of people who do not allow distractions, impatience, or unexpected delays as a reason to deviate from the plan. Deviating from the plan in most cases is a huge mistake that causes further unexpected delays and problems down the road. There is only one reason to deviate from your engineering plan... if part of the plan becomes impossible or must be completely redesigned as something else for some reason. Then deviation is acceptable. To my knowledge, nothing has been found impossible, therefore the plan must continue. Thinking this is somehow a money grab is I am sorry to tell you just wrong. They have simply delivered what was promised in the Engineering plan. If people would stop bitching and just go look at the plan... they could get in their minds what is likely going to get released next. A certain number of those modules have to be in place and fully functional with each other before he can start thinking about releasing a real universe. So yeah, as an Engineer I give them full support for what they are doing... following their fucking plan. To be honest, I have had to fight idiots in marketing talking like some are on this particular subject most of my career. I have won every time... even when marketing won and got the entire plan changed to something that was impossible... because I always got to smile when we had to have the meeting on why everything was so screwed up now it was likely going to be delayed much longer than I told them it would be originally.... if we had stayed with the plan. In every case, I have been rewarded with forcing them to explain to the CEO why everything is much later now....(because idiots do not realize, when they change an engineering plan, every sub project attached to the area of the plan affected must throw away what they have done and start over. Many times that is months of work by an entire team) Edited October 2, 2015 by Zathrus~SPARTA~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaiSan Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Well sorry for being a 'Fucking Idiot' Zath and I'll 'Stop Bitching' now and bow to your impressive intellect and grasp of everything on the planet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halli~SPARTA~ Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Now Gentlemen. So I too hope the game is released soon as these patches that are meaning less to me playing except for the last one before the game comes out are using up all my data plan with uverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) haha Dai... so sensitive today... I was actually referring more to Derek S than you. also... it was just idiot not fucking idiot It was "fucking plan" You have not been that hard on them really. But when I see some out there start bashing in total ignorance of how these things work... yeah I get a little aggravated. I had to manage many Engineering Projects in my day. Sales and Marketing were continuous sparks of complete stupidity throughout my career. Sorry to anyone in those fields just speaking the truth there. Sales and marketing depts. for Manufacturers are notorious in this regard... wanting to change things mid stream... They have no understanding and in many cases no care that this would force us to simply discard weeks or months of work by several teams... it is meaningless to them in my experience. Derek reminds me of them. Always pointing fingers.... crying foul a lot... cause apparently... that is what he does. But I was not trying to insult anyone here particularly. I was bashing the mindset that can produce catastrophes in my job experience of making big complicated things come together and work as one. Obviously, everything right now is hanging in limbo until they feel they have the first person module (ie space marines module) up and running properly with everything else. All things remaining... depend on that first person module, stations, planets, multi crew ships... everything. Essentially until it is done, nothing else can progress as far as being integrated into the entire game. Sure we all wish it came out last month... but in reality I think I would prefer it to have acceptable play within it when it is released for us to toy with. Edited October 2, 2015 by Zathrus~SPARTA~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 oh... and no need to bow to impressive intellect either.. that is not what it is... it is 25 years of experience making engineering projects succeed in spite of all the land mines one hits as they progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luggage~SPARTA~ Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 If I could see evidence that they were making up ground I would accept the logic of keeping to a schedule - however what I see is a line of ships that are already paid for, still awaiting resources to start the work, on model remap, only hanger ready. At this point I fail to be convinced that there is justification for not focusing on the backlog. So personally I take it as a kick in he teeth that a number of my ships, which I have already paid for, have not made progress beyond when I pledged, and now they are adding to the backlog. This is why I am not convinced that they should take more money from people until they have delivered against their previous pledges. The game has a long lifespan, they can be afford to wait a while. To me is just feels like that are adding to the pool of disappointed users - by releasing this ship for sale they increase the quantity of persons with whom they have made commitments that they currently are not meeting. I will fight for the right for people to have alternate opinions to mine, but please respect my right to have my opinion. I have 25 years + in IT and from my perspective this project needs to resolve its backlog before taking on more work - and equally important from taking more money. This may be one of the cultural differences between approach in North America and the UK, and simply we view these things differently over here. We tend to be more cynical, more negative. I respect the much more positive attitude you have in north America, the can-do attitude - however it isn't ingrained is us Brits. Anyway, I hope I have kept this level and given you some insight to why we are thinking the way we are, and that we are just as passionate that the game should succeed, but we just see the focus requirement differently. pip-pip! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) yes I sympathize. I have 3 ships... none of which I can fly yet in game. But the endeavor was not more work.. it was something the backers asked for if you remember. It was provided as the 57 million stretch goal as a result. But as I said, everything is sort of on hold if you think about it until space marines is done and working in game. Because multi crew ships need it.... as well as the rest of the game. Based on what I have seen, they have put a huge amount of assets into making 1rst person work... They will get it right in the end I think Edited October 3, 2015 by Zathrus~SPARTA~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathrus~SPARTA~ Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 one additional thought. Please remember all that engineering timeline schedules rarely indicate time properly. What they define is how things will be integrated and in what order that will happen into the final product. The time in a project timeline is fluid. The initial time estimates are based on no major problmes being hit as it progresses. This almost never happens... we always hit big problems in big projects somewhere a long the way. That causes delays, but it cannot change the order with which things are created, integrated and finished. Changing the order, is what causes huge problems from the engineering side... This is why I think we have seen the pause so to speak. They have a ton of stuff just sitting there, but they cannot introduce it until space marines is fully operational, in a manner that satisfies them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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