Current Video Cards

[Zathrus~SPARTA~]

Hello all,

I was going to post an excellent price on a Gigabyte GTX970 with a factory OC for gaming which is priced very well on Newegg right now. But I decided caution is the best stand for now.

 

After reading through reviews on all of these new GTX-970 cards, if your current vid card is ok, I would wait for a few months.

If you need a card right away, then a GTX-970 for 1080p video or the GTX-980 for higher native resolutions would be my first choice.

 

This is because although I have been using AMD Radeon cards for the last 10 years (currently using an HD7970 OC) the new GTX-900 series cards are a video card design coup.

Simply put, nVidia Engineers figured out how to filter the data going into the gpu that dumps any blank or black pixels in the frame before getting to the GPU.

This means the GPU is only dealing with data that actually needs processed. It then replaces those black or blank pixels with black on the other side of the gpu.

 

This new design significantly reduces the load on the GPU, which allows them to produce excellent fps at lower power consumption and cooler temperatures.

So it is certainly a design coup over all previous video card designs.

 

Having said that, the reason I say wait before you buy one is they are still ironing out a few kinks in this new design.

Some of the problems being reported on the GTX-970 include:

1)Very loud coils on the board producing an annoying whine sound. This problem seems to be occurring on all manufacturer boards. It is likely related to the coils being specified for use by nVidia are marginal.

They probably need to increase the coil size slightly to eliminate this issue.

2)Some card manufactures have discovered the Vram they used does not work well in this new design (with gigabyte for instance they discovered a serious issue with stability using Hynix ram in this configuration combined with a factory OC. Other manufacturers have also run into some stability issues due to their vram choice.)

3)Some 970's have very loud fans (this is no different than the fan noise problem Radeons have had for the last 6 years; they are requiring significant air to stay cool which is difficult to keep quiet)

 

All of these problems are fairly simple fixes so that is why I say wait a few more months if your not in desperate need of a new vid card. These 900 series cards should get dialed in fairly quickly.

Once dialed in I am fairly certain they will be the standard to match.

 

If you do need one right away, I have been having very good luck with both Asus and Gigabyte video cards in both Radeon and nVidia.

For now, on the new nVidia 970's, I would avoid any card with a factory OC since it is these models producing the majority of complaints, warranty, etc. Although all GTX970's seem to have fairly loud

coils on the board currently.

 

[Rocky]

Interesting read, thanks.

[Zathrus~SPARTA~]

I should point out that the GTX980 does not seem to have many of these problems, but it is complete overkill for most folks

unless they are running multi monitors in 1440p or higher.

[GySgt~SPARTA~]

the 4GB and 8GB cards are going to be the way of the future in gaming I am very happy with my R9 270x and i only dished out 236$ cheaper then usual pricing at best buy, also a buddy of

 

mine is talking about some game changing cards in the future from AMD.

[Zathrus~SPARTA~]

Yes with AMD currently you would want a R9-280X or an R9-290X those are both 4 gig cards.

With nVidia the GTX-970 and GTX-980 are also 4 gig cards.

 

The GTX-960 is being pushed hard right now, but this is only a 2 gig card which is NOT adequate for many of the newer games, especially if they are running in 64bit.

Running Star Citizen or Planetside 2 I routinely use 2.4 gigs of Vram continuously. Luckily my 7970 has 3 gigs of vram running two monitors in 1080p. That is with the game on only one monitor.

 

The thing to remember is the GTX-980 and the R9-290X are designed to handle multiple monitors at very high resolutions (1440p or 4k)

 

Many of us run a couple of monitors, but from what I have seen most of us have 1080p monitors. the R9-290x and GTX-980 would be a waste of money for two monitors running 1080p.

The GTX-970 and R9-280X have more than enough capacity to handle two or three monitors in 1080p.

 

and yeah... it would not surprise me to see AMD come up with a counter to this new design coup nVidia has come up with very soon.

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

I'm spending my money on gun parts right now, got the 11.5" upper and ordered lower parts kit. ordered a 1000 rounds of XM855 armor penatratiors. maybe later.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Athlon64~SPARTA~

[MH6~SPARTA~]

I'm very tempted to buy a GTX 980 to replace my aging GTX 580, but I keep holding out in hopes that they'll actually release an 8GB variant or the 6GB GTX 980 Ti within the next few months. But they probably won't.

[Zathrus~SPARTA~]

actually I have heard an 8gig version likely with dual 980 gpu's is in the pipeline

[Zathrus~SPARTA~]

which btw... with their filtering design... would be capable of running a very large wall of monitors without issue I think.

I am guessing this "super card" version will be fairly expensive also.

[Halli~SPARTA~]

I have a GTX 760 4gb and have not found a res I could not use but really these cards are

future proofed is all.

But hey thangs happen right!

[Donziboy2]

1)Very loud coils on the board producing an annoying whine sound. This problem seems to be occurring on all manufacturer boards. It is likely related to the coils being specified for use by nVidia are marginal.

They probably need to increase the coil size slightly to eliminate this issue.

 

 

As someone who tests and evaluates circuit boards for a living I call BS.

Its most likely a resonant frequency/bad filtering or a poorly chosen inductance that does not work well with the supply it is being used on.

[Zathrus~SPARTA~]

well yes, I have not found anyone who said exactly what is making the loud whine. they always refer to it as "coils". But I am fairly certain they are referring to the power transformer coils whining on the board

perhaps the circuit boards your used to testing do not have a power converter section on them?

Edited April 16, 2015 by Zathrus~SPARTA~

[MH6~SPARTA~]

well yes, I have not found anyone who said exactly what is making the loud whine. they always refer to it as "coils". But I am fairly certain they are referring to the power transformer coils whining on the board

perhaps the circuit boards your used to testing do not have a power converter section on them?

 

On a somewhat related note, the only time I've heard a video card making a whining noise is when it is processing an absurd number of frames per second. I.e. on game menus, where the FPS can jump into the thousands. In which case turning V-Sync on eliminates the whine noise because it caps the FPS to a more normal 60/120/etc. Just a little tidbit in case anyone experiences such a noise in the future--try turning V-Sync on. There are other things that may cause the whining noise, but that seems to be the most common cause.

[Zathrus~SPARTA~]

Ok here is a decent tidbit on what I have been telling you about in the website "PC Perspective"

It reinforces what I have said, Donzi said and MH6 said.

 

 

GeForce GTX 970 Coil Whine Concerns

Coil whine is the undesirable effect of electrical components creating audible noise when operating. Let's look to our friends at Wikipedia for a concise and accurate description of the phenomenon:

 

Coil noise is, as its name suggests, caused by electromagnetic coils. These coils, which may act as inductors or transformers, have a certain resonant frequency when coupled with the rest of the electric circuit, as well as a resonance at which it will tend to physically vibrate.

As the wire that makes up the coil passes a variable current, a small amount of electrical oscillation occurs, creating a small magnetic field. Normally this magnetic field simply works to establish the inductance of the coil. However, this magnetic field can also cause the coil itself to physically vibrate. As the coil vibrates physically, it moves through a variable magnetic field, and feeds its resonance back into the system. This can produce signal interference in the circuit and an audible hum as the coil vibrates.

Coil noise can happen, for example, when the coil is poorly secured to the circuit board, is poorly damped, or if the resonant frequency of the coil is close to the resonant frequency of the electric circuit. The effect becomes more pronounced as the signal passing through the coil increases in strength, and as it nears the resonant frequency of the coil, or as it nears the resonant frequency of the circuit. Coil noise is also noticed most often when it is in the humanly audible frequency.

Coil noise is also affected by the irregularities of the magnetic material within the coil. The flux density of the inductor is effected by these irregularities, causing small currents in the coil, contaminating the original signal. This particular subset of is sometimes referred to as magnetic fluctuation noise or the Barkhausen effect. Coil noise can also occur in conjunction with the noise produced by magnetostriction.

 

Gamers that frequently upgrade their graphics cards may have been witness to this problem with a particular install, or you might have been one of the lucky ones to never deal with the issue. If your computer sits under your desk, in a loud room or you only game with headphones, it's also possible that you just never noticed.

Possibly offending inductors?

 

The reason this comes up to today is that reports are surfacing of GeForce GTX 970 cards from various graphics card vendors exhibiting excessive coil whine or coil noise. These reports are coming in from multiple forum threads around the internet, a collection of YouTube videos of users attempting to capture the issue and even official statements from some of NVIDIA's partners. Now, just because the internet is talking about it doesn't necessarily mean it's a "big deal" relative to the number of products being sold. However, after several Twitter comments and emails requesting we look into the issue, I thought it was pertinent to start asking questions.

As far as I can tell today, GTX 970 cards from multiple vendors including EVGA, MSI and Gigabyte all have users reporting issues and claims of excessive coil noise. For my part here, I have two EVGA GTX 970 cards and an MSI GTX 970, none of which are producing sound at what I would call "excessive" levels. Everyone's opinion of excessive noise is going to vary, but as someone who sits next to a desk-high test bed and hears hundreds of cards a year, I am confident I have a good idea of what to listen for.

We are still gathering data on this potential issue, but a few of the companies mentioned above have issued official or semi-official statements on the problem.

From MSI:

The coil whine issue is not specific to 900 series, but can happen with any high end GPU and that MSI is looking in to ways to minimize the issue. If you still have concern regarding this issue, then please contact our RMA department.

From EVGA:

We have been watching the early feedback on GTX 970 and inductor noise very closely, and have actively taken steps to improve this. We urge anyone who has this type of concern to contact our support so we can address it directly.

From NVIDIA:

We’re aware of a small percentage of users reporting excessive “coil whine” noises and are actively looking into the issue.

We are waiting for feedback from other partners to see how they plan to respond.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Zathrus~SPARTA~

[Donziboy2]

well yes, I have not found anyone who said exactly what is making the loud whine. they always refer to it as "coils". But I am fairly certain they are referring to the power transformer coils whining on the board

perhaps the circuit boards your used to testing do not have a power converter section on them?

The circuit boards i'm used to testing receive 24V dc and use an onboard switching power supply to isolate with a transformer from the external supply, it then uses a few smaller switching supplies with inductors to give the voltages we need. And the trains whose electric motors are powered by our inverters keep running on the tracks.

 

Since I seriously doubt they are using isolated power supplies, so they have no need for transformers... But inductors for switching power supply's make sense. Its possible that the vendors with issues bought a coil that fit the inductance but maybe has a different rated frequency due to a different core material. Or possibly a poor quality part that has less then optimal expected inductance.

[Athlon64~SPARTA~]

The Invidia GTX Titan

A 6-phase power supply is responsible for supplying the Titan X (GM200) GPU with power. An additional 2-phase power supply is dedicated to the board’s GDDR5 memory. As you can see, the bottom of the cooler functions as a front-side plate drawing heat from essential components.

 

useing 6+2 phase design supplies Titan X with the power it needs. Tweaked, we’ve seen Titan X boards with reference cooling hit speeds of 1.35 GHz in our own testing. BTW you will have some extra power allowance, the reference board design supplies the GPU with 275 Watts of power at the maximum power target setting of 110%. The board uses polarized capacitors (POSCAPS) to minimize unwanted board noise, as well as molded inductors

 

So a REAL good power supply is needed to run that monster with clean no AC leaking into the DC from cheap 1/2 or 3/4 wave rectifier bridge. They show a 1200 watt in testing. No cheap ass p/s to run it right. The noise their hearing is probley the p/s straining to keep up. This thing will strain a cheap p/s

 

Power Consumption

Let's have a look at how much power draw we measure with this graphics card installed. The methodology: We have a device constantly monitoring the power draw from the PC. We simply stress the GPU, not the processor. The before and after wattage will tell us roughly how much power a graphics card is consuming under load. Our test system is based on an eight-core Intel Core i7-5960X Extreme Edition setup on the X99 chipset platform. This setup is overclocked to 4.40 GHz on all cores. Next to that we have energy saving functions disabled for this motherboard and processor (to ensure consistent benchmark results). We'll be calculating the GPU power consumption here, not the total PC power consumption.

Measured power consumption

1. System in IDLE = 90 Watts
2. System Wattage with GPU in FULL Stress = 334 Watts
3. Difference (GPU load) = 244 Watts
4. Add average IDLE wattage ~10 Watts
5. Subjective obtained GPU power consumption = ~ 254 Watts

Mind you, the system wattage is measured at the wall socket side and there are other variables like PSU power efficiency. So this is an estimated value, albeit a very good one.

 

$500-$639-$800 for the 980gtx and be top dog for a couple of months until the next model comes out, then its another $800 for the next one, and the next one and the next one.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Athlon64~SPARTA~